Steve Clark
Well-known member
Tree at Deaths Head Hole not looking great. I'm no expert, but here are some photos taken today if anyone is monitoring it, or for comparison next season.
Deaths Head Tree
- Thread starter Steve Clark
- Start date
Is it the tree that would be used as an anchor? (Never done it so unfortunately I don’t know)If so could you please report via this link : https://cncc.org.uk/caving/report/?rt=anchor&cid=0
Thanks for the information 👍
Thanks for the information 👍
Steve Clark
Well-known member
Impressive hole, worth a trip. First time for me today, some pics from today here :
Yes, it's the main tree on the topo.
Unfortunately, the post on the surface appears to be just a standard fence post followed by a slippery walk to the tree. The tree itself is the main anchor and it's currently doing a good job controlling the erosion and has plenty of good roots to hold on to. Then it's maybe 10 metres down a greasy climb and over the edge of the 60m hole and swing over to one side to the first single bolt re-belay.
Like BPOW, it may need a bit of a re-think if the tree is on the way out or needs to be removed. A stake maybe? The bolts down the shaft are directly below the tree area so loose rocks and bits from the roots dying off needs thinking about too.
There's also a load of fixed ropes on crabs and rusty maillons right down the hole that look like they've been there for ages. Divers maybe?
I'll email cncc about the tree.
Yes, it's the main tree on the topo.
Unfortunately, the post on the surface appears to be just a standard fence post followed by a slippery walk to the tree. The tree itself is the main anchor and it's currently doing a good job controlling the erosion and has plenty of good roots to hold on to. Then it's maybe 10 metres down a greasy climb and over the edge of the 60m hole and swing over to one side to the first single bolt re-belay.
Like BPOW, it may need a bit of a re-think if the tree is on the way out or needs to be removed. A stake maybe? The bolts down the shaft are directly below the tree area so loose rocks and bits from the roots dying off needs thinking about too.
There's also a load of fixed ropes on crabs and rusty maillons right down the hole that look like they've been there for ages. Divers maybe?
I'll email cncc about the tree.
kay
Well-known member
I've seen this thread and started wheels turning
Impressive hole, worth a trip. First time for me today, some pics from today here :
Yes, it's the main tree on the topo.
Unfortunately, the post on the surface appears to be just a standard fence post followed by a slippery walk to the tree. The tree itself is the main anchor and it's currently doing a good job controlling the erosion and has plenty of good roots to hold on to. Then it's maybe 10 metres down a greasy climb and over the edge of the 60m hole and swing over to one side to the first single bolt re-belay.
Like BPOW, it may need a bit of a re-think if the tree is on the way out or needs to be removed. A stake maybe? The bolts down the shaft are directly below the tree area so loose rocks and bits from the roots dying off needs thinking about too.
There's also a load of fixed ropes on crabs and rusty maillons right down the hole that look like they've been there for ages. Divers maybe?
I'll email cncc about the
Obviously no tight bits then 😂😂👍👍.
It’s on the “list”
s_allshorn
Active member
Kay the tree being condemned as a belay is hardly surprising but maybe it shouldn’t be removed/ cut down. Maybe nature should take it’s course, ultimately it’ll fall down the hole but should we speed up that process.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
It's been identified as a hazard tree by a competent person, so yes, my own view is it should go.
There are probably more important conservation issues which would benefit from the efforts and attention of cavers.
There is of course the option to plant a replacement if there's enough strength of feeling.
There are probably more important conservation issues which would benefit from the efforts and attention of cavers.
There is of course the option to plant a replacement if there's enough strength of feeling.
s_allshorn
Active member
The removal of the tree will hasten the rot of the roots. Stopping using the tree as a belay may enable it to survive some years yet and thus help to hold the top part of this bank together. I think a discussion about what we are doing in and around shakeholes which have a very different character, for many reasons, to the open fell that they are on is important. I wouldn't say I have a "Strength of feeling" more a lack of indifference.
Steve Clark
Well-known member
I did have a bit of hesitation about posting about the tree but thought it was worth pointing it out so it was on the radar. I’m impressed and slightly shocked by the speed of response. We did use it as a belay on Sunday after giving it a good kick and shake. The centre of the trunk on the bank side has a fair bit of rot and mud inside it.
Removal will inevitably make quite a big change to the stability of the whole south bank. It’s quite like an eroded river bank with exposed roots. When the root system dies it will all fall apart.
The proper top anchor and route into the pot will need a bit of thought. The fence post was ok for an exposed walk, but I wouldn’t like to go vertical off it. There are no other large trees. You can’t really get near any solid rock without being in a precarious position. I climbed out onto the left hand (east) side of the pot on a rope about 10m down to get into a decent position to take a photo. The banks are a whole ecosystem in themselves, full of moss and plant life but really soft underfoot, loose and unspoilt.
It could quite easily end up as an eroded muddy mess like the first pitches into Gavel. The hazard of even small rocks is much higher at Deaths Head, being 60m+ and a funnel shape.
Removal will inevitably make quite a big change to the stability of the whole south bank. It’s quite like an eroded river bank with exposed roots. When the root system dies it will all fall apart.
The proper top anchor and route into the pot will need a bit of thought. The fence post was ok for an exposed walk, but I wouldn’t like to go vertical off it. There are no other large trees. You can’t really get near any solid rock without being in a precarious position. I climbed out onto the left hand (east) side of the pot on a rope about 10m down to get into a decent position to take a photo. The banks are a whole ecosystem in themselves, full of moss and plant life but really soft underfoot, loose and unspoilt.
It could quite easily end up as an eroded muddy mess like the first pitches into Gavel. The hazard of even small rocks is much higher at Deaths Head, being 60m+ and a funnel shape.
Steve Clark
Well-known member
The roots, slippery climb down and surrounding edges of the pot look like this :
thehungrytroglobite
Well-known member
The in situ ropes are annoying and just another thing to get in the way when rigging around them. I would love to remove them. I know there is a different UKC thread about this topic but imo if ropes are not in situ for a current project, or because they're on a trade route where they come in particularly useful (eg. Stake pot) then they shouldn't be there at all.
AlanClark
Member
If the tree is to be removed and there is no other good anchor to provide a safe redundant way of getting to at least the first bolt would a set of stainless stakes be needed well back from the edge. Just thinking of what we use for rescue purposes, two lines of three (~1m long bashed in to about 60cm) strap linked stakes then joined by rope to form a master point, a similar but less overkill set up of maybe two pairs or three stakes placed a couple of metres apart would give a more than ample series of anchors to go vertical from.
When I am rigging it I am quite happy to hang from a sling round the tree. It has withstood some powerful gales in the last few years and I think it will be some years before it needs removing. Then what? As Steve says it's removal will open up 'a whole new can of worms' (literally).
What concerns me more than the tree is the Backup fence post. Apart from the usual thump with your fist there is no way of knowing how sound it is. A couple of stainless steel stakes here would be a good idea and probably all that is necessary in the short term.
What concerns me more than the tree is the Backup fence post. Apart from the usual thump with your fist there is no way of knowing how sound it is. A couple of stainless steel stakes here would be a good idea and probably all that is necessary in the short term.
Is there scope for an entirely new way into the shaft? This would avoid the problem with the roots/soil. Perhaps.
I've done the trip a couple of times but of course never looked at the rest of the surface lip with a riggers eye.....I just rigged as per the guide. And perhaps the route we take was originally influenced by the presence of a belay tree?
I've done the trip a couple of times but of course never looked at the rest of the surface lip with a riggers eye.....I just rigged as per the guide. And perhaps the route we take was originally influenced by the presence of a belay tree?
