Devon & Cornwall Underground Council

[Wayland Smith]

The classic example in Mining trips is the Croesor Rhosydd through trip.
To most of the people that do this trip it is just an adventure that they have heard about.
The trip happens to be in slate mines but they have no interest in the history of the places.
Continuous trips have resulted in damage to old bridge remains and enough artificial rigging to open a shop.

This (and access issues) is why people are reluctant to give out information.

 

[jasonbirder]

Ahhh...my mistake I must know an unusual sub-set of Mine Explorers...they regular visit Mines just to enjoy what they see...or explore ground thats new to them...or to show people round that haven't been there before...or to take some photo's...or simply for the pleasure of it... (IE EXACTLY like Caving trips)

Obviously REAL Mine Explorers wouldn't be seen dead underground unless theywere digging/opening up new ground on ALL of their trips...

Anyone that doesn't has

no interest in the history of the places

and if they visit their

Continuous trips have resulted in damage to old...remains

Either that or you could be wildly exaggerating for (elitist) effect...

 

[droid]

Maybe you know a subset of cavers that occasionally go down mines.

Which in the Peak isn't difficult.....

 

[Peter Burgess]

You have to be a true (elitist) mine explorer to understand that mine explorers and cavers are very different species. I wear both hats. When I visit mines, I have a very different reason for going underground, compared to when I go caving. If you only ever consider mines to be "artificial" caves, then you are missing out on one hell of a lot! Yes, that's another elitist view.

 

[NewStuff]

You have to be a true (elitist) mine explorer to understand that mine explorers and cavers are very different species. I wear both hats. When I visit mines, I have a very different reason for going underground, compared to when I go caving. If you only ever consider mines to be "artificial" caves, then you are missing out on one hell of a lot! Yes, that's another elitist view.

I certainly wouldn't class myself as "Elitest", and nor would anyone else that has ever met me. I want no part of a perceived class system in Mine exploring, that's just bullshit that does not need to be there. I've not heard of such a stupid fucking idea in a long time.

To address the point though, whilst there are certainly some marked differences, there is also a lot of overlap as well. A sweeping generalisation is that caving is frequently  a sport, Mine Exploration is frequently a physical history lesson underground.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I apologise for not finding the tongue in cheek emoticon, for those who struggle with my elitist manner of posting.

 

[NewStuff]

Anyone else, and I'd have assumed it was sarcasm... Your good self on the other hand... well, if the cap fits...

 

[Bottlebank]

A sweeping generalisation is that caving is frequently  a sport, Mine Exploration is frequently a physical history lesson underground.

Very sweeping. Caving to me is far more than just a sport. It encompasses many different sciences and interests. The sporty bit you mention so far as I'm concerned is just a means of getting to the interesting stuff.

 

[nearlywhite]

Can the mods turf this to adit now?

I joke of course. They don't seem to have these slanging matches

 

[paul]

[gmod]Yet again we are reduced to bickering. Any more and this thread will be locked and the perpetrators will be banned for a period. Also 'NewStuff', please tone down the bad language.[/gmod]

 

[royfellows]

I am following this thread as indeed others mainly from the attitude of learning rather than barging in with my opinions. Due to my involvement with various organisations I am aware of the need to take on board the needs and aspirations of cavers as important stakeholders rather than just looking at everything with my mine explorer or mining historian hat on.

The thing to remember is that whether a caver or mine explorer the thing we have in common is that we basically enjoy going underground, and that is really whats all about.

 

[gus horsley]

Agreed.    I started off caving in Yorkshire, moved to South Wales with caving and mine exploration, now I'm in Cornwall.  Underground is underground isn't it?  Does it really matter what you do?

 

[Bottlebank]

Yet again we are reduced to bickering. Any more and this thread will be locked and the perpetrators will be banned for a period. Also 'NewStuff', please tone down the bad language.

As the rules seem to have changed should this be updated?

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=1872.0

I'm not arguing with the change in attitude to swearing, I'd prefer to see less of it, just asking the question.

 

[royfellows]

Rather than give an opinion on this i would simply draw attention to the fact that bad language often causes websites to be blocked on servers at educational institutions thus baring those websites to people who use their IT system.

 

[NewStuff]

A sweeping generalisation is that caving is frequently  a sport, Mine Exploration is frequently a physical history lesson underground.

Very sweeping. Caving to me is far more than just a sport. It encompasses many different sciences and interests. The sporty bit you mention so far as I'm concerned is just a means of getting to the interesting stuff.

Well, I did say it was a generalisation. I fully understand that it's not a "rule" as such, but the attitudes I have found on trips holds up that generalisation out very well in my experience. A lot of cavers enjoy the "sporty" stuff, and a lot of mine explorers view it as a necessary pain in the arse to get where you want to be. Individuals will vary, no doubt about it.

 

[bograt]

All I know is that, in the Peak District, Cavers and Mine Historians are pretty exchangable and always have been, most access problems are sorted out by the regional body without problems, although this is very remote from the South West, so could be considered Off Topic!!   :read:

 

[Disgusted from Cornwall.]

I've set up the Cornwall Underground Council Ltd and as from today all access to caves and mines must go through me. No-one is permitted to do anything without permission from me, or one of my authorised delegates. CUC has undertaken extensive liason with landowners and the Duchy and has now assumed responsibility for all sporting underground activities in the area.

If you are from outside of the county, you must first demonstrate your allegiance to CUC and it's principles by having a Kernow flag tattooed on your buttock. You could have this done so the flag is split between both buttocks, but usual protocol is using just the one. We have had our first extraordinary meeting where officers were deemed by the grand director of ceremonies (myself) to be representative of this new governing body. Our insurance is parallel to the BCA system but could be considered to replace it, as BCA is no longer recognised by landowners or the Duchy, due to the new revised remit of CUC and it's officers. It follows that members of the DCUC are no longer actually allowed to set foot in Cornwall, without written permission from CUC or it's access officer.

We have liased with the county council and the European Union and we are shortly to begin a gating program with access codes. Using your CUC integrated passcard, you will be able to gain limited access to certain mines, which will only be allowed once they have been ordered into a graded system of sporting/historical rigour, this is for your own good as CUC take full responsibility for it's card holding members.

Membership is controlled strictly by the committee and applications may be sought by writing to.

James Trevithick,

Cornwall Underground Council,

Room C1 West,

County Hall,

Truro,

Cornwall.

TR1 3AY.


May I remind you that all underground access in Cornwall, including previous private arrangements are now null and void and it is now illegal to go underground in Cornwall.

Thankyou and happy hole going (but not in Cornwall)

J. Trevithick.

 

[Cartwright26]

If you are from outside of the county, you must first demonstrate your allegiance to CUC and it's principles by having a Kernow flag tattooed on your buttock. You could have this done so the flag is split between both buttocks, 

I think this is a grand idea, it then ensures you keep the asshole's well and truly in cornwall 

 

[braveduck]

Is there still a Gallows at Bodmin ,I can see it being used shortly !

 

[royfellows]

I am going to be very brave here by even posting.

Caving, potholing or mine exploration, has something in common with a lot of other activities in that inevitably it will take place on (or under) someone else's land.
Angling is quite popular, but again someone will own the river pool or stream where you want to fish, so inevitably permission must be sought. This is usually most efficiently done by people getting together and forming a club, who can then jointly make appropriate arrangements with the landowner.

Its is therefore obvious that a lot of activities, and I can think of quite a few, will need a degree of organisation and administration. Where things go wrong is when it gathers a momentum all of its own and say an angling club seeks to gain control as much as it can in order to boost its membership and vie with other 'rival' clubs.

There is point coming out of all this, the 'balanced view'. As I have commented before its unfortunate that opinions have to become so polarised. I don't really think it gets anyone anywhere.