Author Topic: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine  (Read 25330 times)

Online nickwilliams

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2011, 08:05:57 pm »
Have you checked to see if the Peter Crabtree logbooks (recently donated to the National Caving Library) contain anything useful on this site?

Nick.
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2011, 11:26:29 am »
Hi Nick - no, I haven't, though mainly as I was unaware of them! I'm admittedly not that au fait with past caving exploits and histories, being a relative newcomer to the discipline. How would I get access?

I will have a look through the TSG library asap, as there must be some old trips logged in past journals. Also the original Peter Lord survey was done with assistance of SUSS, and I'm certain there must be at least a higher-res version of that in their archives somewhere...

There's some huge gaps between the drawing of the old plans (1750-1820), the closure of the mine (1869), and the latest survey (1975) - it doesn't appear that Royse and co drew any internal sketches of their efforts, which is a real shame. If Rother Valley Caving Club were in there digging in the late early 60's, it would be good to know what they did also - how or what they ended up as though, I have no idea.

Offline SamT

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2011, 01:03:18 pm »

I was chatting to Mark Noble last night - who said he was in there a lot back in the day, '70s I think. 

He mentioned Lords survey and I was reminded of Dave Elliots little guide which I'll scan and post up.  I had it as a kid (I used to play up around odin as a youth) and remember that is made it out to be the living end,  Mark seconded that last night.

I'll get scanning. 

Offline Mark

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2011, 01:41:49 pm »
Amazing place Odin, when we were surveying it with Pete Lord and Co in 1973/74? I remember a Cartgate at a lower level (possibly part way down a pitch) but the floor was deads which kept collapsing when you trod on them, we could see the passage going off into the distance but there was no way of safely getting along it, so left it.

Might be a different story now with battery drills etc (Can I remember where it is, can I bollocks)

Also going down the 125ft pitch and then down 3 or 4 other pitches we got to flowing water with a bit of a duck and bits of natural. but while we were in the bottom we could hear stuff collapsing above us somewhere, but no obvious signs on the way out?

Offline SamT

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2011, 01:53:35 pm »

IMG_3846 by sam_townsend, on Flickr


IMG_3847 by sam_townsend, on Flickr


IMG_3848 by sam_townsend, on Flickr


IMG_3849 by sam_townsend, on Flickr


IMG_3850 by sam_townsend, on Flickr


IMG_3851 by sam_townsend, on Flickr


IMG_3852 by sam_townsend, on Flickr

I love the disdain in his closing paragraphs.

Offline Roger W

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2011, 05:42:07 pm »
Thanks Sam   :thumbsup:

Gosh, he makes it sound like a really nice place to have a pootle around in. 

And Mark's comments about how he "could hear stuff collapsing above us somewhere" are really encouraging too!

Seriously, do you guys think there is a real possibility of stabilising the place?
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline droid

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2011, 06:21:53 pm »
Reading Jim Rieuwerts' book, Oden has been worked underground for at least 260 years. possibly more. The easterly end (going west from the Gorge) is the oldest so it's hardly surprising that it's a bit unstable. It was abandoned for about 60 years from the late 18th century which doubtless didn't help....
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2011, 11:41:41 am »
Sam

Thanks for that - very handy indeed! Good to see some actual exploring reported, as opposed to just rumour. Interesting comments on the lower levels accessed via the hole at the base of Chippendale - the unstable wet pitch sounds like the one we descended last year, but it wasn't that bad as far as I remember. The crosscut at the bottom of that also seemed OK too, and I'm certain we found an old hanger at the point where that level has a vertical intersection, up and down. It was definitely blocked at the bottom of that, and the level that continues west beyond the hole.

Phil.

Offline bograt

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2012, 08:14:41 pm »
This place was the scene of one of my first rescue callouts, also tried to kill me later (cracked ribs, another story) treat with respect, NASTY.
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Offline Roger W

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2012, 10:13:22 pm »
Any more news on the state of the place?
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline AR

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2012, 08:22:32 am »
I took part in a condition inspection last month and although the collapse that prompted the closure hasn't significantly enlarged, there are signs of a slump close to the entrance which is giving cause for concern and will need monitoring. Another inspection is planned for the summer, which will involve going down to inspect the underside of the collapse. The closure remains in force for the time being, so please could everyone continue to respect the NT's wishes and keep out.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Roger W

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2012, 09:38:32 pm »
I was sitting on one of those benches outside the chippy at Castleton the other day, idly munching my fish and chips and quietly watching the world go by, when who should I see coming towards me but my old mate Sid.  His usual vigorous stride seemed strangely hesitant, and his usual spiky reverse Mohican haircut seemed likewise reduced from its usual splendour.

“Have a seat,” I said to him, offering him a chip at the same time.

“Ta, but not just at the moment,” he said as he took the proffered morsel of potato but remained standing, leaning sideways with his shoulder against the wall.

“Hullo,” I said.  “What have you been up to then?”

“Went for a quick poke down Odin, didn’t I?” he said, reaching out for another chip.

“That’s supposed to be out of bounds at the moment, isn’t it?” I asked.

“S’right,” he replied.  “That’s why I went in – to have a look round and see what was going on.”

“And what did you see?” I asked.

“Well,” he said, settling himself more comfortably against the wall, “I went up there at a suitably quiet hour, of course, and had no trouble getting in.  But the place is very unstable, and just as I came to the site of Phil’s “collapse” the ground started to trickle away under my feet.  The next thing I knew I was sliding down into this chasm, with the ground falling away under me and the crash and roar of falling rocks coming up from down below.

“Fortunately the sides of the old stope weren’t quite vertical, and I found myself sliding down on my backside at a great rate of knots.  Unfortunately, there seemed to be no bottom to the wretched hole and after a bit the seat of my oversuit started to wear through.  Eventually, after what seemed ages, the crazy fall came to an end and I found myself rolling head over heels down a slope of rocks and dirt, with both oversuit and furry worn clean away, together with the outer layer of skin.  What’s that?  Painful?  Aye, you could say so!

 But then – somehow my light was still working – I found myself standing more or less upright in quite a large chamber that seemed to open out into a huge cavern that was massive beyond belief.  There was something about the look – and smell – of the place, though, that made me think “I’ve been here before...”  And there was something I wasn’t expecting to see – a great iron gate across the passage, blocking off the way to the cavern beyond.

“Well, I couldn’t think of anything else to do, so I picked up a rock and started hammering on the bars of the gate.  And sure enough, a little purple imp with spiky ears promptly popped up from behind a boulder on the other side.  ‘Who are you, and what are you doing here?’ he asked.

“ ‘Who are you, and what’s this effing gate doing here?’ I asked in return.

“ ‘The gate?’ he said.  ‘We had to put that up to keep you guys out.  Too many of you trying to get in without permits!’  And then he shouted out ‘Hey, Boss!  There’s another of ’em here!’

“And then, once again, I heart that awful, dark, gritty voice booming out of the darkness:  ‘It’s not that Derbyshire lot again, is it?  We don’t want them down here causing trouble!’  And then ‘Oh, no!  Not you again!  Asmodelius!  Get rid of him!’

“And, once again, that huge dark shape rose out from the blue glow of the burning sulphur, swinging the gate open with one hand and cracking a fiery whip with the other.  ‘Up you go, lad!’ he said, and I found myself running for dear life up this never-ending spiral slope with that red-hot whip flicking across my exposed backside until eventually the hillside gaped open and I found myself in bright moonlight running across that patch of grass just opposite Mam Tor...”

“Tell me, Sid,” I said, “just how many pints did you have before you set out on this little escapade?”

“Never you mind,” said he.  “But now you know why I don’t want to sit down for the moment!”


OK - I can't believe a word of any of Sid's stories but what is the latest on Odin?  Can anyone bring us up to date?
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline bograt

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2012, 12:46:29 am »
All I can say is that there are only two holes in Derbyshire that have caused me pain, Waterfall Hole warned me,  but Odin tried to kill me, I'd like to challenge it further, but I think it would win!
P.S. my first rescue call out was Odin, I Do Not Like That Hole! :furious:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 01:19:52 am by bograt »
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Offline droid

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2012, 04:40:05 am »
Any mine that goes under a still active rotational landslide is going to have it's issues.

Been down it once, didn't get far, in no real hurry to go back.
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Offline AR

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2012, 09:14:06 am »
There was another inspection visit a couple of months back, there's been no further discernable movement on the new collapse. A number of suggestions have been made about future management and access, the matter is now with senior management at the NT so I can't really say any more than that at present.

Droid - the Mam Tor landslip isn't in itself a problem for the mine, which is in the underlying limestone, but the shale has dropped into the vein cavities and degraded to the infamous Odin mud. If sufficiently wetted, it also washes through and if the limestone deads aren't sufficiently wedged in, a collapse follows....
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline droid

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2012, 09:22:37 am »
Isn't there a considerable relief in the old limestone surface? Leading to 'losing' the vein at various points?
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2012, 12:22:30 pm »
Yeah, the shale/limestone interface wanders all over the place at the top levels, which is partly the problem - big troughs of shale form the roof of some sections, whereas with others it's hard limestone, and the miners were trying to drive horizontal levels through that, often with hilarious consequences.

The irony with Odin is that the deeper you go (theoretically at least) the host rock should be more stable and the vein more consistent as you're leaving both the shale and the boulder bed far above. Obviously the tons of deads held up on wooden stemples will mitigate that advantage somewhat, but even so, the highest and earliest levels are probably the dodgiest. Sadly that's where the current entrance also resides...

Offline Rob

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2013, 10:18:25 pm »
Odin "open" yet?
The end is where we start....

Offline AR

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2013, 08:27:52 am »
The issue is still with NT senior management AFAIK, but if Paul Mortimer is at the UCF meeting tonight he'll know whether there's been any progress or not.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline mmilner

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2013, 09:15:05 am »
The issue is still with NT senior management AFAIK, but if Paul Mortimer is at the UCF meeting tonight he'll know whether there's been any progress or not.

Erm, the meeting is on the 14th, not tonight!
Norbert Casteret (Ten Years Under the Earth) and Pierre Chevalier (Subterranean Climbers) were my inspiration to start caving. (And I'm still doing it.) Secretary, Darfar Potholing Club, the Peak District.

Offline AR

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2013, 10:56:16 am »
So I noticed when I printed the agenda out.... :-[
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Roger W

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2015, 08:10:44 pm »
What's the latest on Odin?  Any developments?
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline pwhole

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2015, 11:17:51 pm »
Sod all, as far as I can tell.

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2015, 02:14:14 pm »
This is still ongoing and DCA is awaiting information from National Trust, who own the site.  They, in turn, are consulting with various of their experts so all DCA can do is wait. 

It's not been forgotten and we still hope that it will be possible to restore access eventually but it is out of DCA's hands for the moment.  We will keep everyone informed as soon as we have any positive news.

Jenny Potts,
Hon. Sec. DCA

Offline Cave_Troll

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Re: Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2018, 12:45:38 pm »
I biked past a week or two ago and the whole area (odin cave, the flat area towards the road and the gorge) was fenced off due to "rock fall"

 

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