Author Topic: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).  (Read 9986 times)

Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • CBC Hacksaw Officer
New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« on: March 05, 2016, 05:34:45 pm »
I left my SRT kit on the cliffs and it got very very shagged indeed. I got on the blower to Tony at Starless River and ordered new stuff. The AV harness was lovely (since upgraded to an MTDE top and bottom) and the new Petzl Ascenders were utter rubbish. I recall being stunned by their flimsy construction (you can bend them with your hands) and size wise, they are probably better suited to the fairer sex. It seems that Petzl have wandered away from cavers with their desire for bombproof equipment and are pursuing some other market. I bought some CT ascenders, as they were basically like the OLD Petzl ones, with the metal catches (a feature lost in their last sacrifice of quality). I tried a CT foot ascender, because I was so happy with the chest and hand ascenders however, I didn't get on with the catch. I've been using my old (10 years) Pantin and it is very sad, the strap protector has worn through (as I keep it on more than I should) and the salt and acid minewater have really corroded it bigtime. So, I had a bit of cash and decided to get a new Pantin.

A peruse online revealed that the old model are impossible to get, however, one chap on ebay has pictures of the old model. Armed with £10 more than the new ones cost, I got mine ordered up and thought "I'll look after this one more". What turned up in the post was different to the picture and I had to go through the "Oh here we go again" anger with Petzl and their cost cutting and their crap that they are hawking to cavers. It is just not good enough and I am bloody cross.

I knew the latest models had shrunk a bit and had lost the strap protector, but seriously, what turned up in the post was a joke. There is no hole for your caribiner anymore and as a result, should you choose not to wear it on your foot, it will hitch up on everything as you crawl through a mine/cave as you just randomly hang it by the webbing. So, should you choose to wear it on your foot, you will no doubt require one of their expensive replacement straps, then another, then another, etc.

If you notice, like the rest of Petzl's eco-drive to use less metal, this thing is smaller. You may also note that the catch has a shorter throw and the device is a different shape. I have yet to try this thing, but looking at it, I imagine that it will not just "fiddle on" with no hands and unclip with a flick of the foot.

I cannot be bothered to go through the whole refund process on ebay and giving this goon with the wrong photos the chance to explain his idiocy and mistake. As a result, I will first obtain some tubular webbing (to protect the expensive strap) and in the meantime, I have ordered a chinky foot ascender, which seems to be the same shape/design as the old Petzl.

Thus:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Right-Foot-Ascender-For-8mm-13mm-Rope-Climbing-Rock-Climbing-Foot-Ascender-/361311882895?hash=item541fddce8f:g:G5gAAOSwstxVbtJ8

It's not PPE, but I expect it to work "right".

I'm not happy with Petzl. First they discontinue the excellent Ecrin Roc, then they shrink their ascenders, then they cut corners and what we are left with is frankly sh!t.

The market leader is seemingly being driven by a production manager who would be better suited liquidating companies, which is what they may have to do, if they continue on this path of lessening quality.

So, I really like my Petzl Rack for long pitches and Stop for fiddling. I wonder Petzl, how you can f*&k these up?

 

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12245
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2016, 06:12:40 pm »
I disagree with much of what you have written but people's opinions differ, so... "vive la difference!"

Offline Gollum

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • I don't do high, wet, tight or dark
    • Twin Peaks Outdoor Activities
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2016, 06:17:09 pm »
Been using the new and IMPROVED smaller models and very happy
Twin Peaks Outdoor Activities
Quality Instruction in the Peak District

Offline pwhole

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1524
  • TSG, DCA, PDMHS
    • Phil Wolstenholme website
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2016, 06:23:07 pm »
I'm not happy. On my last three trips (all within a week, and including one two hours ago), my new-model Croll has slipped back down the rope constantly, once giving me a bit of a fright. As this is yet another grumble to add to the large list, I'm rapidly reaching the point of no return with Petzl, and am slowly but surely replacing all my kit with other manufacturer's. I have a CT chest ascender which is unused at present, and may well get one of the Camp Turbos too.

Whilst I don't doubt their safety per se, the general dissatisfaction with performance is beginning to spoil my caving. My Super Avanti harness is splitting under the safety stitching yet again (3rd time), meaning another perfectly good (Super?) harness will have to go in the bin soon. I appreciate that my caving may not be performed in floodlit sparkling Petzl-pixie-caverns, but it should be able to cope with a bit of mud, dammit. Grr....

Offline Brains

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2016, 06:32:18 pm »
A while ago someone posted an image of a Pantin with some bungee knotted through the karabiner hole, the idea being to stop it self detaching from the rope unexpectedly. Cant find the image just now, but with the new one that option has gone,,,

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12245
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2016, 07:32:15 pm »
.... Pitlamp, if memory serves.

Online paul

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4297
  • Orpheus CC, NPC
    • Orpheus Caving Club
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12245
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2016, 07:45:33 pm »
 :thumbsup:

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2016, 08:08:29 pm »
The best thing about the Pantin is that you can flick it off the rope easily when you want to. When you first get one you need to learn how to keep it on the rope but it's well worth the effort. I've looked at other foot ascenders but I wouldn't want one that you can't flick off.

No matter how careful you are about not walking about wearing your Pantin the strap will wear out. The old design wore out on the corner of your instep. The new one wears out where the small strap passes through the frame. At least that's where my new one wore out. One saving grace with the new design is that because of where it breaks it is an easy repair. You can just sew it back together.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 08:12:48 pm by Cap'n Chris, Reason: image width to fit page better »

Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • CBC Hacksaw Officer
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2016, 08:23:18 pm »
I'm not happy. On my last three trips (all within a week, and including one two hours ago), my new-model Croll has slipped back down the rope constantly, once giving me a bit of a fright. As this is yet another grumble to add to the large list, I'm rapidly reaching the point of no return with Petzl, and am slowly but surely replacing all my kit with other manufacturer's. I have a CT chest ascender which is unused at present, and may well get one of the Camp Turbos too.

Whilst I don't doubt their safety per se, the general dissatisfaction with performance is beginning to spoil my caving. My Super Avanti harness is splitting under the safety stitching yet again (3rd time), meaning another perfectly good (Super?) harness will have to go in the bin soon. I appreciate that my caving may not be performed in floodlit sparkling Petzl-pixie-caverns, but it should be able to cope with a bit of mud, dammit. Grr....

If you're running something like an MTDE Garma, a small croll is a good thing for allowing to "flop" and fold out the way. Esp if you rig your descender on the left (which I don't). Forget the mini croll. I use a Camp Turbochest and it's a great thing.

Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • CBC Hacksaw Officer
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2016, 08:24:57 pm »
I also very very much recommend the MTDE Picos and Garma harnesses. Get it set up right and they are sweet.

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2016, 08:32:58 pm »
I did exactly what we were told [img width =300]



Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12245
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2016, 08:34:48 pm »
Not quite.

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2016, 08:36:29 pm »
Oh we're playing that game again are we?

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12245
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2016, 08:37:12 pm »
Post another picture doing EXACTLY what you did last time and then I'll quote it and modify it so it's possible to show you how you didn't actually do it quite right.

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2016, 08:42:02 pm »
I've got better ways to spend my time. I've bought an original 1940s carburettor to fit to one of my bikes and I'm making a copper petrol pipe for it.

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2016, 10:56:29 am »
The best thing about the Pantin is that you can flick it off the rope easily when you want to. When you first get one you need to learn how to keep it on the rope but it's well worth the effort. I've looked at other foot ascenders but I wouldn't want one that you can't flick off.

No matter how careful you are about not walking about wearing your Pantin the strap will wear out. The old design wore out on the corner of your instep. The new one wears out where the small strap passes through the frame. At least that's where my new one wore out. One saving grace with the new design is that because of where it breaks it is an easy repair. You can just sew it back together.



Correction. The earlier Pantin strap broke where it passes through the frame. The new design has improved that. You can see in the photo that my new one is wearing at the edge of the instep. You can mitigate that by adjusting the buckle to spread the wear and lengthen the life of the strap. You could also protect it with tube tape as suggested by the respected Mr Cornwall above.

Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • CBC Hacksaw Officer
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2016, 06:07:11 pm »
As far as I'm concerned. Chinese Rip Off looks like the new tool of choice. I will review it when it arrives.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:44:25 pm by Pegasus »

Offline snoboy

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • British Columbia Speleological Federation
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2016, 10:52:03 pm »
D-f-C, I was going to point out that you may be able to obtain a replacement foot strap for your old Pantin, but then I saw the pic of it and, well, maybe it is time for a new one.

I am also a fan of the old Pantin for reasons, but sadly I misplaced mine last year. I had been using it for work, and the new style for caving. Functionally I have found them quite similar. I do wish the carabiner hole remained in the new design, as it always was in the back of my head that I could use it replace my hand jammer if required. I do prefer the buckles on the new one. Over all, it's a wash for me.

Treestuff in the USof A makes a Pantin copy for those who want to kick it old style: http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=195&item=15099

The new Croll is definitely not my favourite. Luckily it seems that Petzl still makes the old style one. Seems a lot of industrial users who might be faffing about on 13mm rope, weren't sold on the new style either. I believe it's the B16AAA, though I can't seem to locate it on the site right now, lots of retailers seem to have it stocked.

Online NewStuff

  • Vocal proponent of Open Access
  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • www.dddwhcc.com
    • Deep Dark Dirty WetHoles
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2016, 08:07:38 am »
Luckily it seems that Petzl still makes the old style one. Seems a lot of industrial users who might be faffing about on 13mm rope, weren't sold on the new style either. I believe it's the B16AAA, though I can't seem to locate it on the site right now, lots of retailers seem to have it stocked.

Here you go.

https://www.petzl.com/INT/en/Professional/Rope-clamps/CROLL

On the subject of Foot Ascenders, I'm liking the Camp Turbofoot, seems to work very well indeed once you have the technique sorted. I can't compare to any other device, I've not bothered with one before, but it seems very small. Time will tell on it's longevity, or lack of.
Permission? Wassat den?

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2016, 08:17:49 am »
Most important, does the Turbo Foot flick off the rope easily like the Pantin does?

I see it has a carabiner hole at the bottom which I miss in the new Pantin.

Online NewStuff

  • Vocal proponent of Open Access
  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • www.dddwhcc.com
    • Deep Dark Dirty WetHoles
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2016, 08:22:46 am »
Does it flick off the rope easily like the Pantin does?

A quick "jerk" up while tilting your foot seems to disengage it easily enough. Bear in mind, I'm still developing my technique.
Permission? Wassat den?

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2016, 08:58:06 am »
It takes a bit of time to learn how to use a Pantin. Having got well used to it I think Petzl have got it just right and most people I've talked to agree. I'd like to try the Turbofoot but I don't want to be disappointed if it doesn't work as well as the Pantin.

Offline andrewmc

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 695
  • EUSS, BEC, YSS, prov. SWCC...
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2016, 11:10:11 am »
... I've been using my old (10 years) Pantin and it is very sad, the strap protector has worn through (as I keep it on more than I should) and the salt and acid minewater have really corroded it bigtime. So, I had a bit of cash and decided to get a new Pantin.

A Petzl rep would at this point probably point out that your old Pantin wore out at the strap, while the new strap is dyneema and should be much more abrasion resilient than a nylon strap... :)

Incidentally Petzl are also selling a Catch now for the new (and nearly new?) Pantin should you wish to reinstate a locking catch (I don't think it's that expensive either, £5-10?).

Actually looking at your photo it is NOT the newest (2016) Pantin which is all dyneema strap, but the 2013(?) model. I picked one of the 2016 models up from SR this weekend.

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: New Petzl Pantin. (Rubbish).
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2016, 01:02:55 pm »
Thanks for that. I think most people, me included, wouldn't know there is a new 2016 version of the Pantin since it only came out in the last few weeks.

I think Mr Cornwall's gripe with the 2013 Pantin is that the strap will wear out. The strap will wear out on any foot ascender and you just have to accept that caving gives gear a hard life and if you're keen you give it a bloody hard life. I have found that the 2013 Pantin is better than the earlier one for strap wear. I think I might try the 2016 one in preference to the Camp Turbofoot. The problem I have with the Turbofoot is that I can't see any purpose for the rollers.

The Pantin works really well without rollers. The 2013 Croll is really bad because of the way it wears and the Camp Turbo Chest with it's rollers seems to be better, so far.

Rollers on a chest ascender, yes; rollers on a foot ascender, ???