Author Topic: Reasons why it's called that...  (Read 3813 times)

Online Pegasus

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Reasons why it's called that...
« on: January 09, 2019, 10:17:42 am »
Pitlamp's just been round to drop off some caverpost and conversation turned to Gary Douthwaite's recent, excellent shot of Arson shaft.

https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=23410.msg304899;topicseen#new

He told us why it was so named.....'because you had to get your arse on a certain rock to get down the pitch'... ;D

There's a passage in Whiterock, Mulu called 'Matrimony' as Tim had waited for me to join him out in Borneo before he explored it - who said romance was dead  :)  A fine day's exploration which ended at a pitch.  Others went back, the lead soon ended and was called 'Grounds for Divorce'... :o

Any other names and their explanations....??


Online mikem

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2019, 10:32:54 am »
Mendip has a whole book on the subject:
https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=5979.0

Mike

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2019, 01:06:47 pm »
Paternities Fault in Bagshawe was named so because the choke took four years to dig through, but would have been much quicker had the diggers not kept having kids!!

Offline andys

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2019, 01:47:57 pm »
Chunks of Magnetometer are named after the employment status of the guys who did the pushing - Dole Queue, Benefit Passage, Labour Exchange......
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Offline mrodoc

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2019, 11:11:34 pm »
Joe Duxbury suggested a JAM series with Hesitation, Deviation and Repetition as names for the pitches. You saw it here first!

Online Fulk

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2019, 11:28:59 pm »
So what about the first three pitches in Strans Gill Pot – Faith, Hope, and Charity?
I’ve never checked this with the discoverers/explorers, but I guess they’re based on a passage from the Bible in which St Paul writes to the Corinthians: ‘I commend unto thee, these three: faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity'.

So – when you go down SGP you need faith in your capacity to get back up the first pitch (it's a bit tight); you can only hope you’ll get back up the second (it's a tad awkward); but the third is a socking big shaft in a huge rift (maybe 20–30 m by 10–15 and 45 m deep) – so ‘the greatest of these is charity’!


And as for 'Lady Blue's Underwater Fantasy' . . . that's a whole different scenario . . . but there really was a (beautiful) Blue Lady.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2019, 01:58:27 am »
I think so Fulk - it's a common triplet, notably the Idwal slabs, those 3 routes supposedly being the first 3 tourist sport climbs. No idea how that claim is validated. But given they were named that I'm the hey day of the Empire, you can be sure it's the theological trinity.

Offline scurve

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 07:58:52 am »
Two days after my wedding  I went caving in Fresnedo and we found a fair bit of new stuff, which we named appropriately. From the Matienzo website:

Just beyond the chamber is a 15m pitch and the start of The Honeymoon Series.
Traversing to the left at the pitch head (rope protection required) gains a high rift passage leading to A Bit On The Side, a 24m high aven. A 2m climb at the back of the aven leads to a traverse over loose boulders around the top of Oh Wow!! chamber some 7m below. This pops out onto a balcony looking back into A Bit On The Side about 6m up from the floor. At the top of A Bit On The Side there appears to be a very large passage and the rock here looks excellent for bolting.
    The bottom of the 15m pitch is a large chamber, Trouble & Strife, from which there are two ways on. The first is to follow the obvious downstream passage, All Downhill From Here. This continues in a southerly direction through waist and then chest deep water until a final sump is reached in deep silt. This passage heads almost directly back under Howard's Way, some 15m above, and is presumed to be the upstream continuation of Howard's End. At the back of the sump pool, a mud bank leads to a boulder choke in a small chamber. There is a possible passage leading out of this chamber, but it would require some serious digging. 
    The other way on from Trouble & Strife is up a 3m pitch on its north side. This leads up a cobble slope in high passage and appears to end at a boulder choke. However, the way on is to climb onto a large, poised boulder from behind and then step off into a crawl at head-height over a drop. A second, more difficult, climb down is then met, but this can be bypassed via a wriggle between boulders on the left. A section of rift passage is then followed until a deep hole, Tying the Knot, is encountered (undescended, looks blind), with an in-situ traverse belayed to naturals. Water can be heard here and a large streamway, Honeymoon Period, is soon met.
    Downstream is Holey Matrimony, a sloping, possibly slippery, climb of about 4m, which has yet to be descended. Upstream, the passage is as tall as 15m high and is liberally decorated with calcite and straws, with glorious white calcite lining the streambed. This fine passage continues for some distance, ascending a short climb and passing over several loose boulder piles. The first boulder pile appears to have a small side passage on the right, likely choked; the second has an aven with a small passage seen above; the third boulder pile has a large, draughting side passage, Extramarital Inlet, coming in from the right behind boulders (unentered). Continuing upstream past fine formations, the passage soon degenerates in size until a boulder choke, Hitting the Rocks, is met. A crawl at stream level leads into a very small continuing passage that becomes blocked with large boulders at Irreconcilable Breakdown.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2019, 09:20:47 am »
Anyone interested in the origin of Lady Blues Underwater Fantasy might find a slightly better clue in the excellent KCC 50 years journal (which Fulk will, of course, be very aware of).

By the way, it wasn't me that can claim to have named "Arson Shaft"; I just happened to be around at the time and that was explained to me by one of the explorers when I was a youth.

Moving on to the Peak District, wasn't "Grip Sheets Tomb" an anagram? I'll not give you the answer but see if you can work it out. (Mark N - you're not allowed to comment!) The additional clue (for those in the know) is "master caver".

The "Dratsab" restriction in Nettle Pot becomes obvious if you think backwards . . . .

In Peak Cavern's Far Sump Extension, "Fingernail Chamber" got its name after a flattened finger end (and much swearing) when accidentally hit with the bolting hammer. "Balcombe's Way" is named after the late F.G.Balcombe, founder member of the CDG. Not long before he passed away he'd generously bought a Bosch drill for those involved in exploring beyond Far Sump, thus preventing any more squashed fingers due to hand bolting.

The "Total Perspective Vortex"? Well, anyone familiar with Douglas Adams' hilarious books might like to ponder on just how wiped out the explorers felt on a certain heavily loaded and dehydrating 15 hour trip. "The Ride of the Valkyries" had been on my cassette player in the car on the drive to Castleton (that dates it!); it was in my head as we dropped the 60 m pitch for the first time and just seemed right for such a superb shaft.

"Salmon's Cavern" - pretty obvious really; Les Salmon was a leading BSA North Midlands Group member, made famous by being the subject of the photograph on the dust jacket on Jim Lovelock's 1963 book "Life and Death Underground". But the main justification for naming this atmospheric chamber after him is the legacy of magnificent documentation about Peak District caves he left for future explorers, including many hints and clues which have since been followed up and turned good.

As for Titan - DAN may add detail here but basically the word "Titanic" is reserved for anything extraordinarily large, which certainly applies to that great cleft under Castleton Moor. (Titan is of course Saturn's largest moon, also gigantic).  Actually, DAN could probably give us a lot of names' meanings as he's come up with plenty of excellent ones himself.

Offline Rob

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2019, 09:35:22 am »
If i'm not mistaken Wayne Sheldon compiled a list of cave names with the explanation of their origin, i think targeted on Peak Cavern. Not sure what he was planning to do with it, but i enjoyed reading it. Hopefully it can be shared...
The end is where we start....

Offline mudman

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2019, 10:54:23 am »
I think there are a few Far Canals around.
There is one in Ogof Carno, the Far Canal, named as this is what the original explorers said when they found it. Then of course there is 'C' Sump, although there aren't A or B sumps.  :shrug:

Offline JasonC

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2019, 07:40:45 pm »

He told us why it was so named.....'because you had to get your arse on a certain rock to get down the pitch'... ;D
.....
Any other names and their explanations....??

I don't know if this common knowledge, complete balderdash or what, but I was told that Aardvark Country in Easegill was named because it was f'ing 'ard work.  Seemed appropriate, whatever the case.

Online Fulk

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2019, 10:55:16 pm »
Isn't there a 'Birth Canal' somewhere or other?

Offline rsch

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 11:15:29 pm »
Isn't there a 'Birth Canal' somewhere or other?

Yes, in Ogof Ffynnon Ddu, most directly accessed via Cwm Dwr.

Offline skippy

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2019, 08:17:02 am »
Isn't there a 'Birth Canal' somewhere or other?

Fulk, the Birth Canal is in Henslers pot  :thumbsup:

This may be common knowledge but Magnetometer pot was so named because the entrance was filled in many years ago using rail tracks as support for the top soil. The entrance was since discovered using a magnetometer to locate the ferrous iron in the rails. These are still evident at the pinch point in the ent.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2019, 08:57:26 am »
He's right; this was done by the late Dr.Jack Myers of Austwick. He was a geophysicist based in the Mining Dept at Leeds University, so he had access to some interesting toys which weren't commonly available generally in those days. I'm pretty sure his original data from this exercise are still in the NPC Library in fact. (Just saying, in case it's ever useful in future to know this material exists - might be something the CREG folk are interested in, for example.)


Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2019, 10:00:28 am »
Have named a few in my time.

Withyhill and Hillwithy because they fit in the same system between Withybrook Slocker and Hilliers Cave.

The Frozen Deep, Hard Times and Great Expectations because they were found on the 200th anniv of Dickens birth. ( I never got to use Mugby Junction )

Jonathan's Chamber because my little boy was one year old when I found it. ( Now in his forties )

Domestos Bend and The Buttocks in St Dunstan's Well Cave ( Ugh ! )

Green Lake Chamber.

Tuppenny Tubes on the Quantocks. A homage to a passage in nearby Holwell Cave.

Aisholt Cave, Aley Cave and Holwell Combe Quarry Cave cus thats where they are.

We chose Skyfall because rocks kept falling on our head and the film came out at the same time.

Culdesac Pot cus it never went anywhere.

Roses Rift , Prices Purgatory cus I was saving my name for something better. ( it never happened )

We chose Resurrection in Reservoir cus it fitted in with Willies Easter theme ( Golgotha ) which we continued with Ascension and Heaven's Landing. Resurrection also said something about us.

Viagara Rift as we all thought we were old even back then. ( Shatter Cave )

Hammer and Chisel Rifts ( WL ) cus that's how we found them.

Pink Pillar Chamber in Withyhill cus the pillar is pink. Bobarabath's Bath was named after Bob Whitaker who worked for the Bristol and Avon River Authority and lived in Bath.

WL was after Whitaker and Lavis who first noticed it.

I never liked the name Shatter Cave though at the time nobody came up with a better one.

Vurley is currently a problem.

As yet I dont know where Vurley comes from and we have named none of the pitches. That due to no survey and the fact that we are all likely to disagree. I do have ideas though.

I liked my name Never Ever Land in Potters Heaven, Reservoir as it is the antithesis of Never Land in Upper Flood. ( not officially accepted ). Willie had a good sense of humour.

Naming stuff is not as easy as it sounds. A name should reflect the character of a place or link it to an event at the time. A sequence of linked names is good. ( Dickens theme ).

A few more I liked and was involved with -

The Giant Pebbles of Doom - Reservoir. ( above The Silo which is another one of mine ).

WISh You Were Here. Willie Stanton's initials and the fact that we had to wait a week for others to return to find The Frozen Deep. ( which actually was frozen once and the view we had looked like a stream of ice was flowing down the wall ).

A few more which I cant bring to mind going back 55 years.

Oh East Series Extension and Cerberus Chamber in Holwell.







 







Offline alastairgott

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2019, 11:13:48 am »
I liked my name Never Ever Land in Potters Heaven, Reservoir as it is the antithesis of Never Land in Upper Flood. ( not officially accepted ). Willie had a good sense of humour.

Surely the antithesis of Never Land should be "Tinkerbell's deflowering".

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2019, 12:13:42 pm »
Thanks Old Ruminator - I've always wondered about the origin of some of those Mendip names.

There is another "Great Expectations" associated with Stump Cross Cavern (courtesy of veteran digger Geoff Workman).

Offline skippy

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2019, 01:09:15 pm »
Thanks Old Ruminator - I've always wondered about the origin of some of those Mendip names.

There is another "Great Expectations" associated with Stump Cross Cavern (courtesy of veteran digger Geoff Workman).

Pitlamp,
Didn't Geoff name it because the day before the breakthrough at the bottom of the ent shaft, someone asked him how the dig was going and he replied' I have great expectations' ?

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2019, 01:39:05 pm »
You may be right Skippy - but I can't confirm it. A certain Hull-based fellow club member, who has dug a lot in that area, can probably tell you all about it.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2019, 05:38:42 pm »
Ah Twin Titties was called that as it was two shakeholes together looking like a giant woman had fallen face flat.

Golgotha because Willie thought some rock projections looked like skulls.( Reservoir )

Herbert's Attic after Hebert Balch.( Reservoir )

Suicide in Hilliers as originally it was horribly dangerous.

My name Drop Out Rift in Fairy Cave because the floor disappeared when we banged the dig.

Tar Hall in Hilliers cus the tar seeped in from the tanks above.

Festival Cave, Devon cus it was discovered when The Festival of Britain was on.

Another of mine. Rumble Tumble Hole. Fairy Cave Quarry and very loose.

Pickwick Passage in Reservoir as well as Dingley Dell. Both Dickens related

Happy Snappers in Reservoir Hole cus I was always taking photos along with Mr O'Doc.

One wonders when a name becomes official. I would guess that is when it appears on a survey.



« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 05:55:24 pm by The Old Ruminator »

Online Fulk

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2019, 06:10:16 pm »
Green and Smelly passage, in the Easegill System, is a gross misnomer, conjuring up as it does an evil place – more like a sewer than a cave.

As I understand it, it was so-called because a group of cavers were underground exploring new cave and walking along a very pleasant passage, when suddenly they were assailed by acrid fumes from a smoke-bomb set off on the surface near a draughting hole by some friends of theirs; the smoke was followed shortly by the water's turning bright green, as the fluorescein that had been intodued into a stream sink (by the same surface group) reached them.

So Green and Smelly were very temporary phenomena, but the (rather unfortunate) name stuck.

'Ignorance is Bliss' is another Easegill name, this time with rather more pleasant connotation. Again, as I understand it, a youg lad named Ron Bliss had caught the caving bug and got the bit well and truly between his teeth as he joined the early exploration of the Easegill caves – which, at the time, were known as the near series of County Pot (Oxford Pot at the time, of course). Anyway, he evidently 'discovered' several passages that had already been entered, and his efforts were indulged by the older members of his group.

So when he really did find a new passage, I gather that the other guys didn't believe him at first; when they found that he'd discovered a route through to the back end of Lancaster Hole, they called it after him – 'Ignorance is Bliss'.

Again in Easgill, I don't know who was first to reach Holbeck Junction, but the 'real' Holbeck Junction is (or at least, it was) a major junction on the railway just outside Leeds. So I guess that the guys who were first there came from somehwere near Leeds and named it accordngly. Maybe 'Main Line Terminus' and 'Main Line Passage' continued the railway theme?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 06:24:24 pm by Fulk »

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2019, 06:22:58 pm »
A name that a couple of us have been mulling over recently is "Shistol Pot", named by the Yorkshire Ramblers. I always assumed it was a malapropism, given their tendency for bearing firearms when they were caving.

Offline Topimo

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2019, 06:26:00 pm »
..."Shistol Pot",...I always assumed it was a malapropism...

A Spoonerism perhaps?

Online Fulk

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2019, 06:28:14 pm »
Hi langcliffe, I've wondered about that one, and figured that as they were exploring the cave a rock came crashing down somewhere near where the explorers were standing, and someone said something on the lines of 'Christ, I thought that was a Pistol Shot' but in his somewhat agitated state it came out as 'Christ, I thought that was a Shistol Pot' (so in my scenario, no firearms were actually involved).

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2019, 06:33:43 pm »
No, I wasn't implying that firearms were involved - only that such things as pistol shots were not unfamiliar to the gentleman caver of the day. Your theory is a credible one, though.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2019, 06:34:39 pm »
..."Shistol Pot",...I always assumed it was a malapropism...

A Spoonerism perhaps?

Absolutely - I stand corrected.

Offline Flotsam

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2019, 02:16:42 pm »
All Fools Passage in New Rift Pot is called that because the breakthrough of the dig happened on the 1st April. The team went to the pub and with a straight face told everyone that the dig had gone and there were "Caverns Measureless to Man etc" (Coates Cavern/Route 66). As the dig had gone on for about five years the reaction was "oh sure" and general disbelief. They were all fools of course and the un-descended pitch was untouched until the week after.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2019, 05:14:38 pm »
 :clap2:

Online droid

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2019, 12:57:59 pm »
Best thread for ages this one. Genuinely informative and entertaining.

Thank you.
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline psychocrawler

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2019, 05:30:20 pm »
Eerie Pot in Penyghent Pot because it is a strange place, not because it is like a eagle’s nest on a cliff (eyrie).

Offline al

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2019, 10:47:28 pm »
I'm still waiting for Scud to fess up about the name EMT Aven.  :lol: :lol:
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Offline Scud

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2019, 11:15:39 pm »
I’m sure Dan Sullivan will let you know when he sees the post.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2019, 08:15:58 am »
Eerie Pot in Penyghent Pot because it is a strange place, not because it is like a eagle’s nest on a cliff (eyrie).

Isn't Myers' Leap pitch in Penyghent Pot so named because the late Jack Myers fell off it during the original NPC explorations?

Offline danthecavingman

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2019, 06:58:53 pm »
EMT Aven was discovered the day after a bruising night out in Buxton involving an Ex-Marine Tw*t who took it upon himself to knock several shades of crap out of me. We made the breakthrough with me sporting a black eye, broken nose and quite severe bruising to my body. I'll decline to go into too much detail about the circumstances that lead to the beating but the bloke involved was an Ex Marine. And a Tw*t. EMT. Suffice to say I didn't deserve what was done to me.
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Online Ian Ball

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2019, 07:11:42 pm »
 :thumbsdown: 


Offline PeteHall

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2019, 09:09:13 pm »
We named the Erratum Extensions in Rod's Pot, after breaking through just after the final edit of Mendip Underground 5 had been approved, but before it had returned from the printers...
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Online Badlad

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2019, 10:38:44 pm »
Dan - did you have anything to do with 'no shreddies til Sheffield'.  I always loved that name.

Offline danthecavingman

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2019, 10:57:26 pm »
Yes indeed! After we broke through the choke we realised we needed climbing gear so headed back to the Chapel to fetch more kit and I think we might have had a brew. We got changed out of caving kit and then kitted back up for a return visit later the same day. Stuart Carter announced at some point that we would be heading home commando as we'd used all our dry grots and the subsequent pitch climbed by Glyn Roberts became 'No Shreddies 'til Sheffield' in memory of our lack of undies....
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Online SamT

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2019, 11:45:52 pm »

I'm sure every name of every bit of every cave has a back story.

I keep meaning to annotate a Bagshawe survey with all the bits I know about, and perhaps reference it to a document with all the explanations.

I wonder how many names are lost over time too.  In many of our digs, each corner, lump and bump was usually named, just to help with the debrief in the pub afterwards, but these are lost once the dig has gone and it becomes just another section of passage.

"Finns pot" is at the end of "Moose's revenge", and was named after John Taylors first born, who had broken his arm that day, and was now sporting a pot on that arm.  Its all but back filled now with the spoil from the dig that became 'The French Connection' between the "Full Moon" Series, and the Bottom of "Madame Guillotine"in the "Hollywood Bowl" Series.  (which is situated between "The Bastille" and "Frogs Legs and Cognac".)

The Bastille was a squeeze that imprisoned Tony Revell for about an hour apparently as he fought his way through, Madame Guillotine is a large deep hole in the floor that was named as I understand one of the original explorers nearly fell down, (easy done as you stomp along the passage and there is a bit of a 'step' around its left hand edge to continue.   Thus the deadly name.
Not sure about Frogs Legs and Cognac. Probably just continuing the French theme.

The Hollywood Bowl is a large cavern that does look a lot like its name sake.

There's loads more.


Offline Mark

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2019, 06:17:47 am »
"Elbons Kram" in Hunger Hill Swallet, named by the late John Beck, in honour of it being pushed feet first by yours truly

Offline psychocrawler

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2019, 07:21:08 am »
Eerie Pot in Penyghent Pot because it is a strange place, not because it is like a eagle’s nest on a cliff (eyrie).

Isn't Myers' Leap pitch in Penyghent Pot so named because the late Jack Myers fell off it during the original NPC explorations?

Reputedly but I’ve never seen any written evidence.

Offline caving_fox

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2019, 09:10:14 am »
Eerie Pot in Penyghent Pot because it is a strange place, not because it is like a eagle’s nest on a cliff (eyrie).

Isn't Myers' Leap pitch in Penyghent Pot so named because the late Jack Myers fell off it during the original NPC explorations?

And President's leap in OFD for a similar reason?
If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

Offline Blitz

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2019, 10:03:24 am »
We explored a massive chamber in the Ban Dong Xinu - Chu Yan Dong system in China on the 1988 Bob Lewis expedition.  Roo Walters and team measured it in 2014 and it currently sits as the tenth largest chamber in the world.

From memory it was something like 1.6 kms around the walls and the access into and out of the chamber wasn't obvious.  Everyone got lost in the chamber at some point and as a result it was called Tit Chamber as you felt a real tit  when you realised how close to the exit passage you were, when you found it.  Unfortunately Roo was forced to rename the chamber by the Chinese as 'Tit Chamber' was politically unacceptable.  It is now known as Titan Chamber.

Offline al

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2019, 12:08:36 pm »
I'm really enjoying reading these, and many thanks to Scud and Dan for the background to some of the Peak Cavern discoveries. I'm sure that there are a load more stories yet to be told.

I remember, way back, when I bought Iain Barker's excellent "Classic Caves of the Peak District" - what really had me enthralled was not so much the guide book part, but the really descriptive historical notes.
Old ... but not old enough to know any better

Online Badlad

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2019, 08:04:16 pm »
It's a Cracker - on Leck Fell.  Broke through just after the death of comedian Frank Carson.  It's a cracking way in to the Lost Johns system and it was his favourite saying.  Still looking for, 'it's the way I tell em' pot though  ::)

Offline martinb

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2019, 10:21:17 am »
Marbles - One of the recently discovered chambers in Treak Cliff Cavern, mainly 'cos the 'floor' of the chamber was bloodly difficult to walk over!

And 'Kerplunk' the squeeze between the above Marbles and the next chamber 'Measureless to Man', as it was a downward squeeze, at an angle of 45deg, with little rocks rolling down from Marbles as you went through  :lol:

Incidently, 'Measureless to Man' is measurable! It was named as Vicky Turner - owner of TCC, instructed us to find cave 'Measureless to Man'!

Offline bograt

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2019, 11:07:58 am »
"Dead Dog Hole", Litton, Peak District, back in the early 1980's TSG started digging a rabbit hole where a terrier had disappeared a few years earlier, a lovely little vadose trench heading into high potential no mans land. Named by myself after hearing the story from Andy Broadbent (RIP).
 Don't think the terriers been found yet  :-\
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2019, 12:04:30 pm »
Mitochondrion Pot on Widdale Fell (circa 1974, CPC); a small shaft with flutes so pronounced it looked just like an electron microscope image of a mitochondrion in a cell. (Biologists will immediately understand this - otherwise Google it.)

Offline Maj

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2019, 12:38:20 pm »
Hobnail Hole (the new way into Thrupe Lane Swallet)- so named since the sole of a hobnail boot was found near the surface when the dig started. The hobnail sole is now nailed to the branch we used to mount the spoil hauling pulley above the entrance shaft.

The rift chamber where the connection to Upper Butts' Chamber was made got its name for the following reasons. When we dug our way into the rift chamber, the stream we were following disappeared through a low letterbox slot in the right hand wall. We assumed we would be there sometime, after first eliminating any other ways on we planned to enlarge the letterbox slot which we anticipated would take a long time. Two of our ATLAS diggers are volunteers at The Somerset & Dorset Heritage Trust Railway in Midsomer Norton. Also the average age of the regular ATLAS Hobnail diggers was..... well lets just say its probably not too far off the average age of care home residents.

The chamber was named The Waiting Room.   


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Offline Katie

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2019, 10:23:13 pm »
Saw this one of facebook the other day and thought it was interesting.
Never knew how Suicide cave got that name......
Although I have fact checked it - so hopefully it is true........

On the 8th of January 1927 a Castleton youth, Fred Bannister was roaming around the caves of Winnats Pass when he stumbled across a young woman, slumped with her back against a rock within the entrance to Horseshoe Cave..
Realising something was amiss, he raced down to the village police station to summon assistance. Upon returning to the cave, they found a man's body lying a short distance from the girl, both had been dead for several days.
Harry Fallows and Marjorie Coe Stewart had not been seen by their families since New Year's eve; she was 17, single, worked in a warehouse and was described as bright with an artistic temperament; he was 26, an unemployed driver with a disposition toward depression and gambling, living apart from his wife and child he stayed occasionally with his sister, who resided on the same street as Marjorie in Moston, Manchester. They had known each other two years but Marjorie's father had previously warned Harry off after discovering his marital status and no one had been aware that the pair were still in contact until shortly after their disappearance they sent telegrams explaining they had left together and would not be returning for some time.
Fred Bannister, it transpired, had seen Harry and Marjorie in the cave the week before, the pair had asked Fred and the friends he was with to put their torches out as they had shone them into the entrance, disturbing them.
The youths left them in peace... and at some stage soon afterwards, the pair must have consumed Lysol poison which they poured from a bottle into a porcelain cup and saucer ....both of which were found broken between their bodies.
The Coroner, summing up at the inquest decided the couple had left Manchester with little money between them and once that was spent, they had taken this final course of action. There appeared no evidence that they were of unsound mind and both seemed to have agreed to die, though they could not determine which had passed first.
Many from the village volunteered to go up and help retrieve the bodies from the narrow cave entrance, the light was fading and violent winds howled down the Pass, blowing the helpers across the cold dead corpses as they slid down the steep icy path.
Greengrocer Ted Medwell drove his truck up to collect the grisly load but the gusting Gale made it impossible to manoeuvre the vehicle within the tight Pass... eventually the distressed folk carried the couple down to the Castle Hotel, where they could be stored for identification.
Harry and Marjorie were buried together in St Edmunds an hour after the inquest which was held in the Castleton Restaurant... only a few relatives were present but a group of villagers stood in silent respect nearby.
Ever since then Horseshoe Cave was referred to as Suicide Cave

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2019, 07:27:09 am »
Thanks Katie - I never knew that sad story.

I wonder if there is a gravestone in the church yard, for further verification?

Online SamT

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2019, 08:29:07 am »
To add a little credence,  growing up in Castleton,  that was always my understanding of the etymology. I didn't know there we're actual names for the couple, but just that a couple had committed suicide there. I think I probably read it in some sort of 'ghosts of Castleton' booklet that was probably stocked in the old barn giftshop in the marketplace and most likely  concluded that "on a windy night you can still hear their cries" or some such.

Online mikem

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2019, 09:00:30 am »
If you Google chstrial suicide, a pdf comes up with some newspaper clippings to the above (& there are many other castleton stories on that wordpress, including Odin mine and the finding of treak cliff cavern).

The "cries" are supposed to come from the murdered couple (also has some info on the local lead mining):
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T0qIAwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 09:22:20 am by mikem »

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2019, 09:38:58 am »
Interestingly, Harry Fallows was arrested after traveling with Percy Toplis (The Monocled Mutineer) in 1920 (see the link to the murder of taxi driver George Spicer & mention of Fallows' suicide at the end of this long account):
https://pixelsurgery.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/percy-toplis-bothy-tomintoul/

Further info: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cJApCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT145&lpg=PT145&dq="harry+fallows"&source=bl&ots=zQTnysUZGe&sig=ACfU3U3VFh6m4Y-VQctgW3OELktrUhD4GQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwie9brTjfzfAhWGSRUIHVAtAsw4ChDoATAJeg QICRAB#v=onepage&q="harry%20fallows"&f=false

Photo apparently of Harry Fallows in 1920:
https://photos.globalimageworks.com/sidney-george-spicer-murder-harry-fallows-percy-toplis-bulford-mx2856429187.html
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 10:11:13 am by mikem »

Online mikem

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Re: Reasons why it's called that...
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2019, 10:20:55 am »
Their suicide made national news (this one from the Scotsman, but it even got as far as Australia & New Zealand). The link is the chstrial one I mentioned above:
http://ceegee-viewfromahill.blogspot.com/2018/12/marjorie-stewart-and-harry-fallows.html?m=1

& trying to separate fact from fiction on Percy Toplis, including the accusation that Fallows actually killed George Spicer:
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/92360-percy-topliss/
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 10:41:43 am by mikem »