Poll

Which way do you intend to vote in the upcoming general election?

Conservative
16 (14.3%)
Labour
54 (48.2%)
Liberal Democrat
18 (16.1%)
Scottish National Party
0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru
2 (1.8%)
Green Party
11 (9.8%)
Brexit Party
3 (2.7%)
An Independent
1 (0.9%)
Other
7 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Voting closed: December 05, 2019, 09:07:44 am

Author Topic: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?  (Read 2314 times)

Offline mikem

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2019, 04:30:30 pm »
That could be due to a shortage of Scottish cavers (even in the Grampian many are English).

& share of seats is not quite the same as share of votes - last election the Tories had almost 49% of seats, but only 42% of votes (Labour were more consistent at 40% for both).

Offline Topimo

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2019, 08:01:30 pm »
Previous post is a perfect example of FACTBOMBING. Lots of big sounding scientific words and opinions used to support an opinion with no context or references.

LMAO, how many BIGWORDS do you count?

I see none, maybe one if you didn't make it beyond compulsory secondary education and refuse to self-educate as an adult.

Online MarkS

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2019, 08:09:15 pm »
Moderator Comment There is nothing wrong with disagreements or debate, but please keep things civil and avoid any personal comments. Thanks.

Offline darren

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2019, 08:21:55 pm »
Previous post is a perfect example of FACTBOMBING. Lots of big sounding scientific words and opinions used to support an opinion with no context or references.

LMAO, how many BIGWORDS do you count?

I see none, maybe one if you didn't make it beyond compulsory secondary education and refuse to self-educate as an adult.

Good to know I've made someone happy tonight😀

Maybe I should of used the term unusual/rare/technical words.

More importantly

Step two, if fact bombing fails attack the messenger rather than the message.
No, I'm playing all the right notes

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2019, 09:05:50 pm »
Step two, if fact bombing fails attack the messenger rather than the message.

It is a different person...

Also, you've just discredited the sources by saying they're in a newspaper. You've just claimed they're all invalid because they have a bias. Everyone has a bias, doesn't mean they can't make a cogent argument. You just have to go through the sources. They quote their sources in the articles btw so you can go to the source.

Step 3 play the victim and declare victory

Offline darren

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2019, 10:21:13 pm »
Don't think I've declared myself the victim, just pointed out standard tactics used by politicians etc. But this does bring me nicely onto

Step 3

Put words into others mouths.
No, I'm playing all the right notes

Offline 2xw

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2019, 01:36:01 am »
As a bit of an intersection of caving and politics, the Conservative manifesto welcomes the findings of the Glover review (the one that mentioned opening up access to cavers) and their manifesto specifically includes a promise to make our landscapes "open to all".

Offline mikem

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2019, 07:04:19 am »
Whilst "improving" the trespass laws...

Offline Groundhog

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #58 on: December 01, 2019, 11:04:10 am »
Looking at the results of the poll I would say that the answer to the original posters question is no!
Yesterday I was caving with 2 labour voters and 1 tory. We were unanimous in concluding that we were all very unhappy with our parties and their leaders. 

Offline Groundhog

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2019, 11:07:59 am »
I can't help but notice that cavers have managed to draw not one but two phalluses (phalli?) in the results bar chart...

Ha! It would seem that Labour has the biggest member, The Greens a much smaller one and other only has 1 b*ll

Offline Alex

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2019, 06:49:47 pm »
The poor SNP with 0 votes. Someone throw them a pity vote lol.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Online AR

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2019, 09:16:00 pm »
Ha! It would seem that Labour has the biggest member, The Greens a much smaller one and other only has 1 b*ll
Would the other be in the Albert Hall, perchance?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2019, 10:39:33 pm »

The results of the YouGov #GE2019 MRP model:

Con – 359 seats / 43% vote share         vs 13.3%
Lab – 211 / 32%                                  vs 45.6%
LD – 13 / 14%                                     vs 17.8%
SNP – 43 / 3%                                     vs 0%
Plaid – 4 / 1%                                      vs 2.2%
Green – 1 / 3%                                    vs 10%
Brexit Party – 0 / 3%                            vs 3.3%

Got to love our political system, where 3% of the vote could get you anything from 0 to 43 seats depending if you are SNP, Green or Brexit...
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Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2019, 10:46:59 pm »
I'm not too bothered by geographical minority parties being represented whilst ideological ones aren't - we don't have federal protection of any of our constituent countries so it goes a small way to fix that. FPTP forces people to make the democratic bartering before the election rather than after so it's not quite as undemocratic as it appears. Plus even if you vote for a single issue party your vote's not wasted - even though UKIP never got much representation they did successfully make the main parties hold the referendum...

Offline mikem

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2019, 09:27:28 am »
& Scotland does have almost a third of the UK land area, even if they only have 8% of the population...

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2019, 09:44:54 am »
Looking at the results of the poll I would say that the answer to the original posters question is no!
Yesterday I was caving with 2 labour voters and 1 tory. We were unanimous in concluding that we were all very unhappy with our parties and their leaders.

You can add me to that list - I'm very disappointed and disillusioned with the current situation.
I'm minded to vote Lib Dem in the election (which would be a first for me) as the "least bad" option of all.

My main reason for this short post though is to thank the OP for raising this interesting topic.


Offline mikem

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2019, 10:39:46 am »
Looks like some late labour votes snuck in before the poll closed to boost them up to 48.2%.

Could be a useful synopsis of party manifestos:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2019/12/election_2019_-_what_do_party_promises_mean_for_the_outdoors-72147

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2019, 11:24:23 am »
You'd need a 32 point swing from labour and the greens to the Tories to make this representative as the polls currently stand.

There are a few of that magnitude in British history - most being to the SNP in 2015! Caught me by surprise, didn't realise quite how momentous a shift that was.

Any of the politics watchers in this thread might like to look at Uxbridge and South Ruislip - Boris has a majority of 5000 and Labour appear to be doing well at the Lib Dems expense. That'd be hilarious if they upset the seat but the Tories got a majority   :lol:

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Are UKCaving cavers representative of the population politically?
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2019, 01:23:17 am »
Depressing - although in a cynically fun kind of way Alestorm's '...'ed with an Anchor' (look it up on YouTube, not the sort of link to post directly here) seems to sum up all the parties and how they all treat the electorate fantastically.  Quite a catchy tune though.