Author Topic: Clatterway Level  (Read 1776 times)

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
  • Wind-up merchant and general pain in the arse!
Clatterway Level
« on: February 22, 2020, 06:41:38 pm »
We had a trip down Clatterway Level at Bonsall the other night and did a fair bit of exploring. But there were still plenty of passages that we didn't get time to explore fully.
I was wondering if there is any sort of survey available. It would help make sense of a quiet complex and confusing series of passageways.

I was wondering how close Clatterway got to Ball Eye Mine. There's a lot of back-filled passages in Clatterway. Perhaps one might connect to Ball Eye.

Offline markpot

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 02:09:45 pm »
There could be a strong possibility of a connection with the Ball Eye workings.Looking at the ball eye survey ,the workings extend northwards towards the clatterway levels and Barker mentions they were part of the Ball Eye pipe. There is also the Houghton pipe close by which we had a poke in not so long ago,and some of the workings do trend north towards the end of Ball Eye and Clatterway.Really interesting area. Ball Eye to clatterway would be decent through trip if a connection could be found. There are some open shafts up in the woods above covered by metal sheets that may warrant investigation.

Offline markpot

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 02:21:17 pm »
I'm guessing Ball Eye worked Brynes pipe as part of the same title?or was this a unassociated independent venture?

Offline History Trog

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2020, 10:26:59 am »
Clatterway (Brogdale) was surveyed by myself and Andy Hayes in about 1972. I seem to recall that Nick Butcher published our survey in his PhD thesis along with his own survey of the sough level.
The Clatterway workings are an extension of the Houghton Pipe run; they end in a backfill eastwardly as I remember.

Online AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2020, 10:39:40 am »
I think Brynes Pipe was a separate title, but without consulting the Barmaster's books I couldn't say for certain. The shaft with the steel plate over it doesn't drop into particularly extensive workings, though from recollection there were chokes at both ends. The shaft with the steel bars over it may connect with Houghton; I've dropped that and it goes into a level with a winze at the end that looked free-climbable but I was the only one down there at the time so I didn't push it further. However, what I'd got into matched very well with Lawrence Hurt's description of the limit's of NMRG's exploration of Houghton Pipe.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
  • Wind-up merchant and general pain in the arse!
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2020, 07:27:10 pm »
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll see if I can find the PhD thesis online.

Offline markpot

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2020, 07:54:44 pm »
Who owns the land that the workings are on?Im guessing its not the qaurry due to the boundry fence.? There would be some decent digging potential here if permission could be gained.

Online aardgoose

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 50
  • DCA DCRO
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2020, 08:26:57 pm »
Nick Butcher's PhD thesis is here. I cant see any surveys of that area but the pdf doesn't include some maps mentioned in the contents

https://leicester.figshare.com/articles/Aspects_of_the_structural_control_of_fluorite_mineralisation_in_the_South_Pennine_orefield_with_notes_on_the_mining_potential_/10190786

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
  • Wind-up merchant and general pain in the arse!
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2020, 10:00:10 pm »
Thanks for the link Aardgoose

Offline Big Jim

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 620
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2020, 10:30:53 pm »
I think Brynes Pipe was a separate title, but without consulting the Barmaster's books I couldn't say for certain. The shaft with the steel plate over it doesn't drop into particularly extensive workings, though from recollection there were chokes at both ends. The shaft with the steel bars over it may connect with Houghton; I've dropped that and it goes into a level with a winze at the end that looked free-climbable but I was the only one down there at the time so I didn't push it further. However, what I'd got into matched very well with Lawrence Hurt's description of the limit's of NMRG's exploration of Houghton Pipe.

Did you go with Lampwick to those Adam?  Id mentioned them to him last year, along with the one that Andy found hidden in bramble with rems of an old Stow over it at approx. SK28475764. I also stumbled across an open shaft in the wood just above 'The Bungalow' at approx. SK28525749 from memory.

Offline Lampwick

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 150
  • PDMHS, UEG, GMPC, A.TAC, WMRG
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2020, 12:03:37 am »
Did you go with Lampwick to those Adam? ...

We had a good nosey, the old stowes was actually remains of an old wheel and the shaft was blind. Hawkeye and myself trampled over that area many times while surveying Hollow Phinnis, glad Andy spotted it before we fell down it.

The shaft AR mentions with a metal plate over it was surveyed and went for about 34m, running parallel to Houghton Pipe.

Simplified Clatterway survey, metal lid shaft working and Houghton Pipe relationship shown below, Hollow Phinnis omitted as we're still working on that survey...
Are we nearly there yet?

Offline Lampwick

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 150
  • PDMHS, UEG, GMPC, A.TAC, WMRG
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2020, 01:24:39 am »
Clatterway (Brogdale) was surveyed by myself and Andy Hayes in about 1972. I seem to recall that Nick Butcher published our survey in his PhD thesis along with his own survey of the sough level.

It's quite likely that I have used a partial copy of that thesis in my posession as the source for some of my data. On that assumption I'd like to acknowledge R.Flindall, A.Hayes and N.Butcher for their contribution.
Are we nearly there yet?

Offline Big Jim

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 620
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2020, 08:42:45 am »
So from that then Mart I presume that the open shaft I mention that was just into the woodland north of The Bungalow will almost certainly be part of the Houghton Pipe workings.
Anyone ever dropped the covered shaft outside the entrance to Ruggs Hall?

Offline History Trog

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 10:16:41 am »
Sorry folks i made a mistake about our Clatterway survey being in Nick Butcher's thesis. It was a long while ago and my memory had elided events. What happened was that i gave a copy of our survey to Nick as a favour and he passed it to Colin Oakman (without my permission) and Colin used it (very small scale) in his thesis but credited it to Doug Nash (who had nothing to do with it), much to my annoyance. I have a copy of this and will see if i can get it to attach.
What interested me particularly about the survey was the rift working that leads off the top of a roof shaft at the northwest end of the Clatterway system. It could be accessed through the bodyhole in the hillside above the sloping footpath up the hillside - a very tight rift leads to the shaft top. We put an 8 foot long iron pole over this. The passage beyond was only 3 ft high and 18 inches wide, completely backfilled with rubble - i wanted to dig it because there was a good air flow into it in summer but the only place to dump the rubble was down the shaft, which seemed a bad idea. Also i was working by myself and i found it a very tight squeeze to get along the rift, being clumsy and broad-shouldered. It presumably leads into roof workings high above the end of Brogdale Sough. This rift is the vein crossing the north end of the survey marked A.
I will see if I can attach it - am no good with this stuff. Apologies for giving a wrong ref - memory no good, lived too long.

Offline History Trog

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 10:19:09 am »
Just realised that I should have mentioned that the survey of Brogdale Sough on this plan by Colin Oakman was the work of Nick Butcher. The Ball Eye plan was just a rough out from Lawrence Hurt's survey,

Offline Jenny P

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 704
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2020, 10:50:16 am »
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll see if I can find the PhD thesis online.

We have a printed and bound copy of Nick Butcher's Thesis at the British Caving Library - it came from John Beck's collection.  We also have all John's collection of surveys and maps and have just finished cataloguing the ones he kept separately in cardboard tubes; we're just starting on his 8-drawer map chest.

Many of the mines surveys from Glebe Cottage went straight to PDMHS and many of these had actually been Doug Nash's.  We felt it was more appropriate to pass the mining material on as BCL concentrates more of caving.

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
  • Wind-up merchant and general pain in the arse!
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2020, 10:57:06 pm »
Thanks for all the info guys.

Historytrog's map proves that Clatterway and Ball Eye are nowhere near each other.

It's interesting that neither Historytrog's or Lampwick's maps show the upper entrance to Clatterway behind the cottages just off the footpath.

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
  • Wind-up merchant and general pain in the arse!
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2020, 11:06:44 pm »
According to Peakdistrictcaving.info there's a survey in CCPC newsletter number 73. Unfortunately the oldest newsletter on their website is number 81.

Anyone got a copy of number 73?

Online AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2020, 09:21:38 am »
There's probably a copy in the BCL - Mary/Jenny, could you confirm?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline yrammy

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2020, 09:52:33 am »
See Jenny's reply earlier.
Mary 

Online AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2020, 11:54:25 am »
I was referring to the CPCC newsletter Mary, do you have a copy of the relevant issue in the library?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline shotlighter

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2020, 12:34:33 pm »
I was referring to the CPCC newsletter Mary, do you have a copy of the relevant issue in the library?
I'm out at moment but when I get home I'll see if I have a copy. (Crewe Sec.)

Offline Jenny P

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 704
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2020, 12:48:48 pm »
We don't have any copies of a Crewe CPC Newsletter in the Library.

The only items we have are copies of the Crewe CPC "Club Journal":  Vol. 2 (Jan. 1988) and Vol. 3 (1989).

It seems a pity that we haven't more of the series of publications from Crewe as it doesn't seem that their publications have been sent regularly to BCRA or later the British Caving Library, apart from the 2 mentioned above, and that's a serious gap in our holdings.

As I said earlier, we do have a printed and bound copy of Nick Butcher's Thesis.  This has included in it a large number of maps, surveys and diagrams and I assume these are also included in the online version.


Offline shotlighter

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2020, 02:54:56 pm »
I've had a look in my old paper newsletter copies & don't have a No.73 unfortunately. I'll have an ask at our Monday meeting & see if I can track down a copy.
As for Jenny's point about the BCA library, I don't have an archive of publications, just some personal paper & PDF copies.
I do have a copy of the missing Journal No.1 which I think I scanned to PDF - I'll dig it out & email it.
As for a more complete set of Crewe stuff for the library, I'll put it on the agenda for Monday &  see what can be sorted.
Nigel

Offline Jenny P

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 704
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2020, 03:04:58 pm »
That would be brilliant Shotlighter - thanks very much!

You'd be surprised at the material we haven't got, which you would have thought would be in any library which included Peak District journals.  It's just that some UK clubs regularly sent one copy of all their publications to the BCRA Library and continued to do this when the BCRA Library became the British Caving Library.

I would encourage all caving clubs to aim to send one printed copy of all their publications to BCL so that we can have as complete a collection as possible.  You'd be amazed at what we get asked for - we find we can sometimes supply a scan of some really out-of-the-way item and then can't produce a copy of something which is relatively common.

Offline History Trog

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2020, 09:42:17 am »
From my own archives, I have a copy of these early Crewe bulletins. Below is the extract from the Crewe journal. It is only a superficial report of a cave tourist visit. They went in at the rift above Burton Place cottage but their remarks about its backfill presumably being the work of Masson types is laughable. It was there in the early 1970s and was obviously the work of the old miners. The air draught in makes it particularly interesting.

Clatterway Levels, Matlock. Sunday, 5th November 2000
   Paul Nixon finally persuaded me that it was time to go caving again after a long lay-off, but I didn’t fancy his suggested quick trip down P8, especially after the heavy rain all week, so I picked Clatterway Level as an alternative. Neither of us had done it before (in fact neither of us has done very much at all in the Matlock area) and I’d never heard of anyone else doing it, so with a bit of luck we wouldn’t be able to find it and could spend the afternoon messing about instead.
   At the bottom of the Via Gellia road we turned left up towards Bonsall village, and parked on the village lorry park next to the recycling bins ! After changing, we walked about a hundred metres back down the hill to a cluster of cottages on the left, round a small spring, then followed the public footpath up a narrow entry between the cottages. The path climbed alongside Burton Place Cottage, then entered the woodland beyond. We were looking for a way up to the left, but everything was well overgrown, except a little mowed terrace overlooking the cottage garden. Further up the footpath we found a faint trail which eventually led to an outcrop of rock with a black cleft at one end. Paul was ready first and crawled in, with me close behind, then we crawled out again feeling stupid, as it was the wrong hole and finished after about four metres !
   A search back downslope, towards the cottage, revealed another outcrop and another black cleft, just above the end of the mowed terrace, and very close to the cottage garden. This looked more hopeful, and Paul wriggled in headfirst, which I thought was very bold considering that the entrance was tight and sloped steeply downwards. Anyway, his feet soon disappeared and he called back that he was in. After passing the bags in, I followed rather more cautiously, having stripped off bits of dangling SRT kit first. It was actually quite easy, certainly bigger than the squeeze at the top of Lathkill Head Top Entrance. Inside, the passage is a dry, walking size rift, which stretches away almost straight, and which is quite pleasant, despite the enormous spiders which festoon the walls and roof ! I followed Paul along the passage for about twenty metres, to the lip of an open shaft which was the full width of the passage floor, about one metre at this point. Beyond, we could see the passage continued for a short distance to a blockage of loose deads, possibly backfilling from the Masson Club’s activities when they worked in the system during the late eighties.
   Paul rigged the drop from a line of three spits, which were better placed for ladder and lifeline than for SRT, but by jamming a pebble in a crack in the opposite wall of the shaft he was able to rig a sling for a deviation which effectively removed the rub point at the pitch head. Paul descended and found the continuation passage going off at about six metres down. While he took photos I descended to the boulder choked bottom of the shaft at about thirteen metres down. The shaft clearly continues, but may link back to another level already accessible from further on. I climbed back up to Paul’s level and we followed the passage to another shaft, where the bottom was clearly visible about four metres down. Before descending we traversed over the hole to explore the short stretch of workings beyond. The whole area is heavily mineralised, and there are numerous shot holes and areas of curving pick marks, as well as some intriguing picked-out ‘marks’ on the walls.
   The second pitch is supposed to be a free climb, but we managed to find a belay of sorts and rigged a short rope, which I certainly found useful on the way out. Below, the character of the mine had changed and we were in a maze of interconnecting pipe workings with gritty floors and low arches encrusted with large calcite crystals. After checking out various side passages we picked up a substantial draft, and this led us through a wider section, with large breakdown debris, to a straight rift-type passage with a flat roof, similar to the entrance passage. This main route headed off, essentially straight, with a few ups and downs, and the odd low section for a considerable distance. Workings to either side were ignored, once we checked that we were still heading into the draft, and then, just as we reached a deep depression in the passage floor we began to notice spiders again, and an occasional moth or mosquito on the walls. The bottom of the depression was cluttered with odd bits of broken timber and a building plot notice, but it was spanned by a single metal rail which made crossing it easy. Ahead, daylight streamed in through a low rabbit-hole entrance, and with a bit of wriggling we popped out onto the hillside, a couple of hundred metres down valley from where we had entered the mine ! I thought we would be miles away.
   Going back through was straightforward, and we emerged without difficulty after a total trip time of about three and a half hours. No doubt it can be done much more quickly, but we spent time taking photographs and looking at the mineral remains. Ideally the two pitches need proper belays installing, then this would make an ideal through trip for novice cavers. No-where is it tight, the pitches were spacious, there were no obvious problems with loose deads or areas of unstable roof, and best of all, it was dry.
                               Steve Knox.  7-11-2000


Offline braveduck

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • Digging Bucket maker.B.P.C. Little Green Men.
    • http://www.bpc-cave.org.uk
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2020, 05:50:46 pm »
Last time I was near Balleye Quarry there was a drilling rig working in the Quarry . I understand they hit the thermal waters .
There was talk of a Spar a Bottling  plant and a Swimming Pool . Later at the bottom of the road up to Balleye there was a
small circular wall with a tap inside to sample the "waters" ! Does anybody know the story of this failed scheme ?

Online AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2020, 09:35:36 pm »
This was something the quarry owner, Albert Rockarch, was wanting to do (as far as I know). He had Terry Worthington put the dam into Fountrabbey Sough as part of this in the expectation that it would create a great head of water, but it never did what it was supposed to and plans never came to anything. The only result is that now, if you want to see the sough you need to know how to find the winze in upper Ball Eye that drops down to sough level!
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline History Trog

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #28 on: February 29, 2020, 09:50:46 am »
In 1990, the Deepwood Mining Company, drilling for fluorspar at Ball Eye Quarry at 180 feet depth, cut thermal springs that allegedly ‘sent a gush of water 150 feet into the air’ – see P.D.M.H.S. Newsletter No 57 Jan 1991 p11 and newspaper reports.

As AR states, the plans to bottle the water failed. Perhaps someone can add more details.

Online AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #29 on: February 29, 2020, 10:06:27 pm »
I'll ask Terry when I next see him....
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline braveduck

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • Digging Bucket maker.B.P.C. Little Green Men.
    • http://www.bpc-cave.org.uk
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #30 on: February 29, 2020, 10:52:38 pm »
Apparently there were three boreholes put down and not very deep .But the pumping tests were unsatisfactory and inconclusive.
Information gleaned from the BGS Borehole Map.

Online pwhole

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
  • TSG, DCA, PDMHS
    • Phil Wolstenholme website
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2020, 11:19:42 pm »
Isn't this roughly the area where Puttrell and friends did some exploration, via Cobbler Mine, looking for the source of the thermal waters?

Offline History Trog

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2020, 10:18:12 am »
Yes, Puttrell and Co. did descend Cobbler Shaft but deemed it too dangerous to explore. It was about 100 feet deep. The shaft continued in existence until destroyed by quarrying perhaps c.1960. Nellie Kirkham looked at the shaft collar. Op Mole looked at it but apparently never made any exploration - a great pity because they were good enough to deal with very tough conditions. Lawrence Hurt, also a marvellous explorer, was just a bit too late. Cyril Maddocks was there in the 1950s but he was not up to that sort of thing. He took Orpheus around the Hermitage several times c1954 but apparently they made no attempt to do Cobbler. I have been unable to find anyone who did explore it -  it must have been one of the most interesting mines in the whole ore field.

Offline yrammy

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2020, 11:19:20 am »
Just happened to be looking through an old Masson Caving Group Journal and found this from 1988  . Have attached a file.

 

Main Menu

Forum Home Help Search