Author Topic: What are your views on the CSCC?  (Read 4898 times)

Online Ed W

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2020, 09:52:33 am »
Oceanrower said;
Quote
Do you think the problem might be geographical in that the Mendips has a very large membership that lives nowhere near caves! I.e. the rest of the South of England.

For me to get to my club takes at least 2 1/2 hours and it's the nearest area to me. I assume that other areas have a much more local membership and so people are more likely to attend meetings.

Thanks for the question.  My limited experience of CSCC meetings is that people are prepared to travel, my other half travelled 1.5 hours each way to meetings over the years she was secretary and club rep.  I think what puts people off is the atmosphere of the meetings which can feel very cliquey and intimidating if you are not in the "in crowd".  That the "in crowd" mostly live locally may well lead to exclusion of "outsiders" as much if not more than the time and distance required to travel to meetings - just my opinion though.

Online Ed W

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2020, 07:34:48 pm »
Interesting development with a Wessex member's views https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=26665.0

Online Ed W

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2020, 10:04:35 am »
From CSCC website, AGM now 25th July at the Hunters.

https://www.cscc.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=diary:start

Note that anyone can attend as an observer...

Offline Fishes

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2020, 11:14:13 am »
My views on the CSCC are that its a matter for it's member clubs.

If you are a southern caver and are not happy about the way it is run then get involved and do something about it.

Those of us who are not southern cavers (like me) or not prepared to put in the effort should probably step away from the keyboard and do something more constructive.


Online Ed W

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2020, 11:23:23 am »
Fishes,
I don't disagree with what you say.  I am a southern caver and a member of a CSCC member club.  I have also attended my fair share of CSCC meetings over the years.  The problem is that CSCC member clubs and their members are not getting involved (average voting attendance at meetings is usually only just quorate) and as such a small number of people are effectively running the agenda.

These posts are intended to highlight what is being done in the name of southern cavers and trying to get more of them to see that getting involved is important.

Online PeteHall

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2020, 11:33:21 am »
Aside from everything else, the CSCC's response to the coronavirus situation has been woeful in my opinion.

While the DCA and CNCC have been negotiating on behalf of their members and providing regular updates, not a word from the CSCC, beyopnd quoting the bullshit MCR claim that most caves are closed.

Sorry, take that back. At 16.29 yesterday, the CSCC website Access News section was updated with a list of closed sites, though this has not been shared on their facebook page, or emailed to membership as far as I have seen so far.
https://cscc.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=access:access_news
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Offline mikem

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2020, 01:51:00 pm »
& missing Eastwater...

Offline menacer

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2020, 07:17:24 pm »
Just in case I havn't been controversial or contrarion enough for one day, I'll pass a few thoughts on this topic too.

From my perspective, there is little point attending a meeting when the core committees of Mendip are of one mind.

In general ( few exceptions) the prime prerequesite for candidates being elected into Mendip committees are,.
1. Martin Grass Sycophants
2. Alan Butcher yes man
3. CCC ltd tea boy.

For this reason, there can be no change from within. People have tried and generally give up quite quickly, there are other parts of the country/world that are far more welcoming to cave in. 

Usually a meeting is full of historical rhetoric,  ending with "well its the landowners wishes" as if that's the final matter and any debate up to that point is inconsequential.

Bizarrely its become quite a common used ploy in caving debates, not just limited to Mendip,  such as the Draenan chronicles and I note, is also being rolled out in the Covid debates across the entire country, in all caving regions. 

Generally though the evidence for this is never provided and when landowners are contacted privately about access to their caves, bypassing control freak access bodies, the land owners are open friendly and willing to provide access. ( Note this is based on my anecdotal experience, I'm sure there must be some cases where it hasn't been fruitful but that's life)

The recent access update on the CSCC website is a perfect example of Mendip negativity.

Everything you can't do but nothing you can do.

It states that all Mendip huts are closed so you can't get a cscc key for all the caves and makes no mention that its still ok to go caving if you happen to have a key.... And be under no illusion, lots of people have keys.
Also

A recent thread noted that Fairy cave quarry is open to climbers not cavers.
Yet the CSCC website states there is no access to caves in the quarry.
So, it cant be a landowner issue, it must be a an access control body issue.
Fair enough if people don't want to operate leader lead or give out keys for key caves, but no reason to deny access to open caves such as Balch, Fairy and Hillwithy, Hilliers.
Why is this? 

Every time you start to scratch under the surface off historical Mendip control access bodies, you always find the same people with same rhetoric.   

When cave entrances change owner, the same people always rush to be the first to contact the owner about " their wishes" ...
And funnily enough, out of the blue, the landowners, all independently, make the same rules about anti kids, anti professional caving, limiting group sizes, lock the cave, give the key control access to the same people, every time.
Its astonishing how many new  landowners have this independent epiphany, truly it is.
Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.

Online PeteHall

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2020, 07:39:45 pm »
You're on a roll today  ;D

You may well be right, but I hope you are wrong about change. It's got to happen one day, one way or another...
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Offline droid

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2020, 02:11:55 am »
You're on a roll today  ;D

You may well be right, but I hope you are wrong about change. It's got to happen one day, one way or another...

Someone needs to grow a pair, then.... ::)
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline mikem

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2020, 11:30:39 am »
Is there anything in the BCA constitution that means a club has to be a member of the regional council where they are based, rather than the one that most aligns with their interests?

Online PeteHall

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2020, 12:06:12 pm »
Is there anything in the BCA constitution that means a club has to be a member of the regional council where they are based, rather than the one that most aligns with their interests?
No.

But another regional body would not benefit the club in their own region.

A better question may be to ask if there is anything in the BCA constitution to prevent another regional council to be set up in the same region as an existing regional council...

Southern Caving Clubs Council perhaps?
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Online Pete K

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2020, 12:10:16 pm »
Southern Caving Association surely, there are more cavers to represent than just clubs.

Online PeteHall

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2020, 12:20:17 pm »
Southern Caving Association? Splitters!
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Offline andrewmc

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2020, 12:22:12 pm »
Is there anything in the BCA constitution that means a club has to be a member of the regional council where they are based, rather than the one that most aligns with their interests?

A club can be a member of multiple regional councils. The regional councils are (I think) free to refuse membership.

Online 2xw

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2020, 01:51:18 pm »

A club can be a member of multiple regional councils. The regional councils are (I think) free to refuse membership.

It took us like 3 years to persuade the CNCC that Sheffield was, in fact, in the north

Online Fjell

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2020, 02:03:58 pm »

A club can be a member of multiple regional councils. The regional councils are (I think) free to refuse membership.

It took us like 3 years to persuade the CNCC that Sheffield was, in fact, in the north

Only just according to my wife, and said grudgingly. She being born in the Leeds workhouse. I can see your problem as she is considered liberal where she comes from.

Offline mrodoc

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2020, 02:18:01 pm »
*Disclaimer - I am not a southern caver despite having recently moved to Exeter, I assume there's a baptism or something I have to do down Swildons while my SRT kit is burnt  ;)

Out of interest would electing a regional representative (i.e. the head of cscc etc) direct to BCA be an acceptable notion? (was thinking this could leave the 'civil service' side of the cscc intact while getting people to actually vote on the representative side) Or would you change something else?

One of them is chairman of BCA!

Offline mikem

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2020, 02:31:40 pm »
I'm pretty sure setting up more than one body in the same region wouldn't work, but if all the clubs opted out of the council, then it would be defunct & a replacement could be brought in.

Online PeteHall

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2020, 04:58:39 pm »
Instead of (or as well as  ;D ) grumbling on here, why not leave the CSCC a review on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/CouncilOfSouthernCavingClubs/reviews/
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Online JoshW

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2020, 05:00:51 pm »
Instead of (or as well as  ;D ) grumbling on here, why not leave the CSCC a review on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/CouncilOfSouthernCavingClubs/reviews/

That's so incredibly petty. I love it.

Online PeteHall

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2020, 05:06:49 pm »
well they are more likely to read and take notice  :thumbsup:
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Offline braveduck

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2020, 05:42:35 pm »
Your comment was removed very quickly ,they must be in denial or worse !

Online JoshW

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2020, 05:54:08 pm »
Your comment was removed very quickly ,they must be in denial or worse !

Pete's comment is still there, but other comments have sprung up with more positive views on CSCC

Offline Ed

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Re: What are your views on the CSCC?
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2020, 11:10:27 pm »

A club can be a member of multiple regional councils. The regional councils are (I think) free to refuse membership.

It took us like 3 years to persuade the CNCC that Sheffield was, in fact, in the north

Nooo...... Most of the Dales aren't even Northern

Yorkshire the wrong side of the Tees

 

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