Author Topic: Deepest cave in England  (Read 3149 times)

Offline benshannon

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Deepest cave in England
« on: June 25, 2020, 08:54:18 pm »
Hi guys,

I'm finding conflicting reports but I'm really curious to know, what is the deepest cave in England? I thought it was in the 3 counties system

Online aricooperdavis

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2020, 09:06:17 pm »
I've always been told it was OFD, but I think your definition of deepest becomes important.

Offline benshannon

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2020, 09:07:04 pm »
Ofd is in Wales matey

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2020, 09:13:18 pm »
Without looking anything up - the deepest point in the 3CS is the bottom of the upstream sump at -63 m. The sump surface is 1 m above the level of Leck Beck Head - so the deepest point in 3CS is 62 m below Leck Beck Head level. If you look up the altitude of LBH in the new Northern Caves guide and also look up the height of the highest entrance, that'll at least tell you the total depth of the system.

GG is quite deep too - deepest point is either in upstream Deep Well or at the bottom of one of the sumps below Lost River Chamber.

The 3 CS Survex team - or Kevin Dixon re GG - are perhaps your best sources of definitive information though.


Offline Benfool

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2020, 09:24:58 pm »
Pretty sure it's 3CS, Peak cavern, Charterhouse. All deeper than 200m with 3CS about 250m deep.

And to be pedantic, pitlamp means the bottom of the upstream sump in Gavel Pot For the deepest point. I'm guessing the highest entrance is Large Pot???

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2020, 09:30:13 pm »
Meregill to Roaring and into the Roaring Hole downstream sump is also a deep one - but not, I think, as much as 250 m..

Peak Cavern is certainly around the 250 m mark - Titan to deepest point in Main Rising sump (-70 m). The Peak District Survex team can tell you an exact figure.

Sorry Benfool - thanks for mentioning that - yes Gavel upstream sump.

Offline Benfool

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2020, 09:44:20 pm »
It also probably depends on where you class the highest point of Peak/Speedwell system as. If it's the top of the titan entrance Shaft, then i suspect it's deeper than 250m.

Offline benshannon

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2020, 09:54:03 pm »
So ukcaves seems to have 3 counties as the deepest in England as a few of you have said. So, the deepest without diving would be leck beck head?

Offline Benfool

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2020, 10:04:22 pm »
Leck beck head is one of the resurgences to the 3CS, so no way if getting there without diving. I'm guessing that the lowest above water point in the 3CS is bottom of the 4th pitch in gavel (which will be the same depth as the start of the downstream sump in lost John's), at about -190m, although to get there from the highest point in the system you'd still need to dive.

I suspect the deepest cave without diving is Charterhouse.

Online aricooperdavis

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2020, 10:25:40 pm »
Ofd is in Wales matey

 :chair: that'll teach me not to skim read posts!

Offline mrodoc

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2020, 10:54:17 pm »
Pretty sure it is Charterhouse Cave on Mendip at 228 metres but I could be wrong.

Offline Benfool

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2020, 11:01:51 pm »
Consulting the Peak/Speedwell 3D model, the Top of the Titan entrance shaft (and pretty much the top of the entrance shaft of JH) to the bottom of Main Rising, is 267m - which would make it deeper than the 3CS (if the 249m value on Wikipedia is to be believed). However both the Titan and JH entrance shafts are artificial, so it would seem wrong to count them - there are much much much deeper mines in the UK (1400m depth!!).

The very top of Titan, to the bottom of Main Rising is 237m - which would make it slightly shallower than the 3CS. The deepest you could do without diving would be 166m.

B

Online pwhole

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2020, 11:49:39 pm »
Amazingly I was just going to post exactly the same info - I'm glad I saw this before I typed it out ;)

Online ChrisJC

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2020, 06:46:30 am »
Ofd is in Wales matey

 :chair: that'll teach me not to skim read posts!

Not wishing to be pedantic or controversial, but Wales is part of England, and has been since the campaigns of King Edward 1st in 1283.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_Wales_by_Edward_I_of_England

I realise that is not without controversy!

Chris.

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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2020, 07:07:41 am »
So, the deepest without diving would be leck beck head?

I never really understood why some cavers focus only on the vadose zone. Just because parts of a cave system are water filled doesn't mean they're not there.

Or are you just interested in the depths of popular trips?


Offline maxf

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2020, 07:09:00 am »
Another vote for Charterhouse, and you have to come out the way you came in...

Online mikem

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2020, 07:11:24 am »
Not that anyone has been to the bottom for quite some time!

Offline benshannon

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2020, 07:42:55 am »
So, the deepest without diving would be leck beck head?

I never really understood why some cavers focus only on the vadose zone. Just because parts of a cave system are water filled doesn't mean they're not there.

Or are you just interested in the depths of popular trips?

Well I have an adventure in my mind that I would like to do. I don't cave dive so I want to go as deep as I can in England without diving.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2020, 08:05:14 am »
Understood. Best of luck with the project!

Offline Martin Wright

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2020, 09:05:35 am »
In September 2007, Jim Lister and Mark Smith did a through-trip from the top entrance to Titan to Peak Resurgence, including dives through Far Sump, Buxton Water Sump and the Resurgence itself. This was reported as having a vertical range of 241.4m and was believed to be the deepest through-trip in England, if not Britain, at the time.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2020, 09:27:35 am »
Surely they are all greatest vertical distance.

Deepest cave in England as in deepest into the Earth should be compared to Ordance Datumn Newlyn.
    Somewhere in Portland or Otter hole?

As an aside does anyone know the "deepest" cave against sea level Datumn in the world?

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2020, 09:57:27 am »
Pretty sure it is Charterhouse Cave on Mendip at 228 metres but I could be wrong.

You are correct, and you can make the full 228m depth with one 20 foot ladder and a single spit hanger!

Not that anyone has been to the bottom for quite some time!
Not been to the end for a couple of years,  I normally turn around at Jet Pitch to save carrying the ladder! From the conversations at the annual leaders meeting, I don't think anyone else has been to the end for a very long time... Real shame, as it's a great cave...
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Offline langcliffe

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2020, 12:16:03 pm »
Deepest cave in England as in deepest into the Earth should be compared to Ordance Datumn Newlyn.   Somewhere in Portland or Otter hole?

Possibly Wookey Hole (circa -26 metres below OD)?

Online mikem

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2020, 12:42:18 pm »
On that definition, I expect it's going to be some sea cave, but then the opo doesn't dive. (Although the Severn railway tunnel hit a massive freshwater spring under the estuary, that came from Wales, which must have been deeper than Wookey)

I doubt the equatorial bulge has much effect over the relative depths in Englandshire, but it does mean the summit of Chimborazo is further from the centre of the earth than the top of Everest...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 01:04:16 pm by mikem »

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2020, 01:08:15 pm »
As ever in these discussions, it would help to know what the OP had in mind.

I'm guessing something like highest peak and deepest cave in 24 hours.

If Charterhouse fits the bill for deepest (as in most vertical range without diving), I'd be happy to lead a trip to the end, with a few caveats, like the cave being open again...
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