Author Topic: Blummin facebook....  (Read 1197 times)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2021, 09:35:58 pm »
Hey - even I find it easy now to post photos on here.

If I can do it, anyone can!

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2021, 09:45:26 pm »
Yup, if Pitlamp & I can post photos - absolutely anyone can  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2021, 09:47:09 pm »
 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Offline pwhole

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2021, 10:01:54 pm »
The facebook news issue is of huge concern though, especially to news providers and journalists who are steadily being phased out by the continual drip-drip of social media - and the inevitable lack of truth that can become endemic. This feature on C4 News tonight was a good summary - I guess you could accuse them of 'bias' being a news programme presented by journalists, but at least they wrote it themselves. There's the full feature available, but this interview with Shoshana Zuboff was amazing - it's rare that Krisnan Guru-Murthy is lost for words:

https://www.channel4.com/news/shoshana-zuboff-australia-facebook-news-ban-wake-up-call-for-governments-over-tech-giants-control

https://www.channel4.com/news/facebook-faces-international-criticism-after-tech-giant-blocks-users-from-seeing-news-in-australia

Offline mikem

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2021, 10:09:15 pm »
That is the same with all industries, just most of them don't have the same impact if they withdraw their services

Offline pwhole

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2021, 10:14:39 pm »
I must admit I'm still baffled by the concept that if facebook pull news feeds from their system that their users will then have 'no news'. I mean, I just posted links from Channel 4 news, which I also watched on TV. I'll watch Newsnight later, and no doubt read through a couple of newspaper websites too. It's not difficult, unless you truly believe that facebook is the internet, of course.

Offline darren

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2021, 10:18:42 pm »
Everyone complians Facebook is using other people's  news reports without paying.

Facebook stops using other people's news reports.

World goes wild.

No pleasing some people.
No, I'm playing all the right notes

Offline Ed

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2021, 11:16:20 pm »
Also worth beating in mind one of the big ones complaining about Facebook in Australia is.....

Newscorp

Offline crickleymal

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2021, 12:36:28 am »
I'm a tad confused about the Australia thing too. I never get my news from Facebook, Google news yes, the BBC and channel 4 and occasionally Al Jazeera.
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Offline RichardB1983

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2021, 12:43:13 am »
When I used to post on the UKC FB page a couple of years ago, the post would reach many 100's of people who had 'liked' the page, often in the 1000's - these days it's barely 10-20% of those who have liked the page.  Obviously FB would like UKC to PAY for our post to be shared. I'd rather put any money back into caving, not further line the pockets of the billionaire owners.

I did hear a few years back that Facebook were going to gradually reduce "organic reach" - the number of people who were going to get Facebook Page content appearing in their feeds, recommendations, search results etc. without you having to pay Facebook - potentially until it was functionally zero - and that eventually the only way someone could end up seeing your content was either through visiting your page directly or you paying Facebook to advertise. Your posts might not even show up in search results unless you pay to "Boost" them. That was a few years ago, and not sure if that's still the long term plan, but I wouldn't be surprised to find non-paid reach falling in future.

Whilst the Facebook advertising rates might well be reasonable for a small business hoping to sell products or services, it's far from clear this non-profit community groups could justify doing the same.

Offline RichardB1983

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2021, 12:50:36 am »
I'm a tad confused about the Australia thing too. I never get my news from Facebook, Google news yes, the BBC and channel 4 and occasionally Al Jazeera.

From what I understand, if you went and visited the main Facebook page of any Australian news organisation, ABC news Australia, Sydney Morning Herald etc, then there was nothing there at all: no posts, no photos, no stories, no links etc. It was like the page didn't exist. You can verify this by going and visiting the pages now - it's still the same. Obviously some people were getting their news content by subscribing to these news organisations' own Facebook posts and posts appearing onto their feed - or by visiting their Facebook pages - and that has been turned off completely.

For Australians viewing Facebook - they cannot view international news organisation pages, BBC, American ones etc.

So you can't share their posts, and, according to Twitter users, you can't create a post which contains a link to a news organisation's website either.

Offline Dickie

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2021, 07:33:35 am »
I only use Facebook to contact the 20 or so people who I am "friends" with. I wouldn't dream of using it to read the news when you can go directly to news companies' websites. Who does that?
It's disgusting that FB has compromised a load of worthwhile sites here in Australia that could genuinely put lives at risk. Anti-vaxxer FB pages are still active - go figure!
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Offline oldfart

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2021, 08:22:52 am »
Bin Faecbook.

Offline mikem

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2021, 08:53:07 am »
It'll bin itself eventually. Until then it's a useful platform to keep in touch with people.

Offline kay

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2021, 09:17:59 am »
One thing that Facebook does that the forum doesn't is private members groups, which can be easily created and self-administered. The creator is at liberty to appoint administrators and admit or remove members at their leisure, as well as choose their preferred privacy settings.


I’m a member of 5 private botany groups on FB which give me access to the most highly regarded botanists in different plant groups. It’s given me learning opportunities better than I’ve had access to in the last 50 years. It might be possible to replicate this on an Internet forum, but at the moment, Facebook is where they are. I won’t be leaving it soon.

Yes, Facebook has problems, and the latest version hasn’t improved it, but a lot of the criticisms people make (not on this thread) are more to do with how they use it, not with Facebook itself

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2021, 09:36:36 am »
Reading the information in the above posts, it seems that FB is good for private communications but not very effective for public ones. This is really what I was trying to say earlier in this topic.

Offline mikem

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2021, 09:43:37 am »
It's good for drawing people's attention to them. The problem in Australia is that they've also blocked government covid news.

Offline 2xw

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2021, 10:46:12 am »
I love Facebook. Let's me communicate with people I find it difficult to stay in touch with. And I run an arachnology group that has a far, far wider general reach than the forum (which we also have). As others have noted it also gives folk access to actual experts on a more personable level.
Imo the BCA should be paying Facebook for advertising if it wants to recruit more cavers generally, as should any club who's objectives are the same. It's just how the world is now. And of course they want people to pay - it's a business.

Then again, Facebook is for old people - have you considered getting a UKC tiktok?  ;D

Offline pwhole

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2021, 11:06:36 am »
I've heard that Friends Reunited is quite good for reuniting with your friends  ;)

But seriously, I think a lot of this would be resolved by introducing payments - much of the bullshit around social media is the contradictions and moral ambiguities around the funding stream. To keep it 'free' to users means screwing over a shitload of non-users (we're always the last to know, even when we're involved in the news) and over-reliance on advertising, much of which simply doesn't work - as in, you don't actually buy the product or service that they want you to buy. Paying for access would make it so much clearer who gets what and why. And 90% of their users would disappear overnight, making it much easier to communicate effectively. Facebook is like hula-hoops, the Bay City Rollers, 'Aceeed' and Downton Abbey - it's a current trend, sold by trendmongers, and you gets what you pays for, in every sense.
Anyway, as it's Friday, here's a quote from 'The Adventures of Greggary Peccary', by Frank Zappa. Well worth a listen but I'll not post the link for fear of causing a rage of Hunchmen - and Hunchwomen  :halo:
(but play the 2012 remaster)

And with that, GREGGERY turned and strode nonchalantly into his dinky little office with the desk and the catalog and the very hip water pipe, and proceeded, with a vigor and determination known only to piglets of a similarly diminutive proportion, to single-handedly invent THE CALENDAR!

With his eyes rolled heaven-ward, and his little shiny pig-hoofs on the desk, GREGGERY ponders the question of ETERNITY (and fractional divisions thereof), as mysterious ANGELIC VOICES sing to him from a great distance, providing the necessary clues for the construction of this thrilling new TREND!

Angelic Voices:

SUNDAY

Greggery:

Sunday?
WOW!
SUNDAY, SATURDAY . . . TUESDAY THROUGH
'MONDAY—MONDAY'!
SUNDAY, SATURDAY

Narrator:

And thus THE CALENDAR, in all of its colorful disguises was presented to the bored & miserable people everywhere!

GREGGERY issued a memo on it, whereupon the entire contents of the Steno Pool identified with it STRENUOUSLY, and WORSHIPPED IT as a WAY OF LIFE, and took their little pills by it, and went back 'n forth from work by it, and paid their rent by it, and before long they were even having BIRTHDAY PARTIES IN THE OFFICE by it, because NOW, AT LAST, GREGGERY PECCARY's exciting new invention had made it possible for everyone to find out HOW OLD THEY WERE!

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2021, 12:36:20 pm »

Imo the BCA should be paying Facebook for advertising if it wants to recruit more cavers generally, as should any club who's objectives are the same. It's just how the world is now. And of course they want people to pay - it's a business.

Then again, Facebook is for old people - have you considered getting a UKC tiktok?  ;D

When I was BCA P&I I suggested paying for adverts on facebook.  Not to attract more cavers, I don't think that would work, however it would help BCA communicate and engage with cavers.  BCA are however welcome to use UKC for free, UKC is not a business and is not run for profit.

Tiktok?  Yes maybe we should, however we don't have the time, simple as that.


Offline 2xw

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2021, 02:07:09 pm »
Quote
"BCA are however welcome to use UKC for free"


Whilst I love ripping on the BCA as much as anyone, I tried to get a "BCA Conservation" account on UKC (which I did email about last year) when I took up the post, which failed, and I've just tried again, which again failed as I haven't been able to verify the account. So it's not an intentional snubbing, more that we haven't actually been able to sign up. I think Rostam might be having similar issues.

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2021, 02:15:31 pm »
Quote
"BCA are however welcome to use UKC for free"


Whilst I love ripping on the BCA as much as anyone, I tried to get a "BCA Conservation" account on UKC (which I did email about last year) when I took up the post, which failed, and I've just tried again, which again failed as I haven't been able to verify the account. So it's not an intentional snubbing, more that we haven't actually been able to sign up. I think Rostam might be having similar issues.

Feels like you're ripping UKC at the moment.  We don't have the billions FB does, it's me, Tim and a great, voluntary moderation team.  You know me as does Rostam - if you are having problems why not PM me, or even give me a call (you have my number) and you know I will try hard to solve any issues.

Edit - just found the account in 'awaiting activation' file and have activated it - try now.

Cheers, Jane

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2021, 05:44:13 pm »
Sorry that we haven't got the autoposting from the BCA website to the forum working yet - I've not intentionally prioritised Facebook, it just has an API to work with which makes automated posting easy in a way that SMF doesn't (out of the box, at least). I'm working on it, just also juggling a million and 1 other BCA jobs at the same time!

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2021, 05:47:55 pm »
Your efforts are noticeable and appreciated ACD.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Blummin facebook....
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2021, 06:55:44 pm »
As Will says, I've been having trouble actually getting a second activated account for P&I. I raised the autoposting issue with Ari when I realised but we have both been somewhat busy of late.

Auto posting is the way forward and uses multiple social mediums I don't keep track of. The real issue is a lack of volunteer support in P&I. If anyone fancies giving me a hand and we have a load of good tools and data to bring people together.

I can even give you decent data on the reach of various caving news sources, but I ought to go back to the grindstone.

 

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