Author Topic: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals  (Read 7137 times)

Offline Bob Mehew

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Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« on: January 19, 2010, 08:35:14 am »
just seen BBC News - A rare glimpse in the cave of crystals an advert for BBC2 program tonight Tuesday 19 January "How the Earth made us"

Offline Brains

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 03:40:38 pm »
Now that is what I call well decorated!
 ;D

Offline mikem

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 09:16:47 pm »
More info & clips: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qbvyc

Will be available on iplayer afterwards - it's the first 10 minutes.

Mike

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 08:40:49 am »
Nice eye candy; in true BBC tradition the educational element seems levelled at the UK's lowest intellectual category. S'good stuff for the masses.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 11:19:15 am »
That's exactly what I thought. Long gone are the days of intelligent science on BBC2. Remember those days?

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 11:24:08 am »
Indeedy, Peter: as a youngster I used to revel over Horizon but the more recent incarnations of it are execrable pap.

If only BBC (and other channels) could get the quality of the narrative content to match the fabulous photography. That would be worth watching with the sound on.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 11:29:58 am »
Here, I thought you'd given up the delights of watching the gogglebox!

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 11:31:30 am »
InterwebnetTV, Peter.

Offline ttxela

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 01:05:22 pm »
Nice eye candy; in true BBC tradition the educational element seems levelled at the UK's lowest intellectual category. S'good stuff for the masses.

I didn't think it was that bad, then again perhaps they just found my level...... :unsure:

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Offline Bob G

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 01:06:07 pm »
Nice eye candy; in true BBC tradition the educational element seems levelled at the UK's lowest intellectual category. S'good stuff for the masses.
That's exactly what I thought. Long gone are the days of intelligent science on BBC2. Remember those days?

Did both of you really not find the clip stunning?
I'm sure you're both good blokes, but why do you have to pour your charmlessness on things like this?
Your Mother should have told you - if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 01:13:53 pm »
Yes Sir. Sorry Sir. We were referring to the science, not the pretty pictures.

Offline underwhere

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 08:07:33 pm »
Brilliant pictures, negligible science/geology, excitable but uninformative script, continuity errors in the Qanat underground canal.
Oh, for the Horizons of yesteryear.

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 11:11:26 pm »
Old OU Geology videos are what you really need. A great one with Leslie Judd explaining the significance of the Rookhope borehole comes highly recommended.

Robin

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2010, 11:16:41 pm »
Brilliant pictures, negligible science/geology, excitable but uninformative script, continuity errors in the Qanat underground canal.
Oh, for the Horizons of yesteryear.
It would have been better on radio, but only with a good sound engineer, don't you think?   ;)

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 10:12:16 pm »
Do they actually let people walk up crystals as shown in some of the pics on their website, or are they photo-shopped in. I've yet to see any marker tape.

http://www.naica.com.mx/english/index.htm

If I was paranoid, I might think this was some elaborate hoax!

Robin

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2010, 11:04:49 pm »
It is a hoax - that bloke was 3cm tall.

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2010, 10:55:34 pm »
http://www.manataka.org/~manataka/page1985.html

I've been looking on the web for some sort of conservation statement on the caves, but the only stuff I come across are sites with pictures of people walking on and touching the crystals. Given the uniqueness of the formation I would not have expected this. If you were to walk on a pristine calcite floor in muddy boots in this country you would be crucified. So, do they have some strange system of boot exchange to ensure that you only walk on the crystals in soft, mega clean slipper type footwear or what?

Robin

Offline owd git

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2010, 12:07:57 am »
Do they actually let people walk up crystals as shown in some of the pics on their website, or are they photo-shopped in. I've yet to see any marker tape.


If I was paranoid, I might think this was some elaborate hoax!

Robin
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Offline ttxela

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2010, 07:59:11 am »
http://www.manataka.org/~manataka/page1985.html

I've been looking on the web for some sort of conservation statement on the caves, but the only stuff I come across are sites with pictures of people walking on and touching the crystals. Given the uniqueness of the formation I would not have expected this. If you were to walk on a pristine calcite floor in muddy boots in this country you would be crucified. So, do they have some strange system of boot exchange to ensure that you only walk on the crystals in soft, mega clean slipper type footwear or what?

Robin

Could this be something to do with the plan to let the chamber re-flood once they've finished mining?
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2010, 10:42:48 pm »
Quote
Could this be something to do with the plan to let the chamber re-flood once they've finished mining?

Possibly, but if someone decided that the new Head of the Valleys road was to destroy Craig a Ffynnon in 10 years, I wouldn't be getting all my mates to wear orange boiler suits with company logos on the back to go and stand on calcite floors to be photographed before it's too late.

Are there any links to actual science being done at this site ?

Robin

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2010, 11:17:25 pm »
Also with so much attention, with people in orange suits in attendance with a ready worldwide audience ready to visit an unique site why would they want to flood it any time soon ?

What's the value of whatever they are mining compared to the uniqueness of the site ?

Offline speleotel

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2010, 11:53:48 pm »
And I thought it was just me thinking it was a photoshop job for the stills? so its a bit of bluescreen trickery as well for the video work? They just keep showing the same bits the same views; for the stills, in the catalogue and now on the programme.  :blink:

Offline paul

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2010, 10:03:55 am »
And I thought it was just me thinking it was a photoshop job for the stills? so its a bit of bluescreen trickery as well for the video work? They just keep showing the same bits the same views; for the stills, in the catalogue and now on the programme.  :blink:

There are many, many other references to Naica Cave and the Giant Crystals, for example http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/photogalleries/giant-crystals-cave/index.html. A lot of trouble to go for an elaborate hoax, especially since the cave was found in 2000?
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Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2010, 10:16:51 am »
The new BBC4 series on the history of chemistry is a much better science production - Thursday evenings.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2010, 10:19:24 am »
A lot of trouble to go for an elaborate hoax, especially since the cave was found in 2000?

Oh, I don't think so: GB Cavern was discovered in the 1940s and yet we're still keeping up the tradition of taking photographs of cavers stood in quarries in the middle of the night to prolong the myth!

Offline caving_fox

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2010, 10:58:34 am »
Quote
What's the value of whatever they are mining compared to the uniqueness of the site ?

The crystals are of course priceless.


Well the value of the mine products is some. The pretty crystals have zero monetry value, and actually allowing people into see them probably delays/halts mine production so they may have a negative value. If the company then has to spend money to prevent the natural flooding from happening, they definetly have a cost rather than a value. Hence I'm entirely unsurprised that the company isn't interested in preserving them.

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Offline SamT

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2010, 12:18:54 pm »
http://www.manataka.org/~manataka/page1985.html

 Given the uniqueness of the formation I would not have expected this. If you were to walk on a pristine calcite floor in muddy boots in this country you would be crucified. So, do they have some strange system of boot exchange to ensure that you only walk on the crystals in soft, mega clean slipper type footwear or what?



It looks like they do indeed have such a system. Did you see the changing room/control room, paper lined floor, draft curtains, everything looking pristine and thats at the bottom of a mine!!
I think if you turned up in your warbac cordura and wellies just after a trip down wigmore, they may not let you in.

Pretty amazing place.

Offline ttxela

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2010, 12:54:44 pm »
Quote
What's the value of whatever they are mining compared to the uniqueness of the site ?

The crystals are of course priceless.


Well the value of the mine products is some. The pretty crystals have zero monetry value, and actually allowing people into see them probably delays/halts mine production so they may have a negative value. If the company then has to spend money to prevent the natural flooding from happening, they definetly have a cost rather than a value. Hence I'm entirely unsurprised that the company isn't interested in preserving them.

I don't know of course, but I got the impression from the programme that they were going to flood the chamber in a sort of controlled way back to the conditions they found it in. Surely the best preservation there could be?
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2010, 01:19:11 pm »
Great quote from here http://www.stormchaser.ca/Caves/Naica/Naica.html

Quote
the terrain was so difficult to walk on that we had to be extremely cautious not to slip and fall. Doing so would could get you impaled on a sharp crystal and would require a dangerous and difficult rescue.

.. the perils of walking on giant crystals...


Robin

Offline gus horsley

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2010, 01:31:08 pm »
The crystals are gypsum which appear to have formed very recently (in fact until the cavern was broken into) by hot sulphur-laden fluids derived from an active volcanic region rising up through chalk or limestone, thereby depositing calcium sulphate,  Presumably, if the process had been left undisturbed the cavern would have completely filled with crystals to form a dense impenetrable mass.

Offline Les W

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2010, 07:17:38 pm »
A lot of trouble to go for an elaborate hoax, especially since the cave was found in 2000?

Oh, I don't think so: GB Cavern was discovered in the 1940s and yet we're still keeping up the tradition of taking photographs of cavers stood in quarries in the middle of the night to prolong the myth!

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2010, 07:33:32 pm »
...
 a dense impenetrable mass.
Is W/L still posting here then?
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2010, 11:25:01 pm »
Given the lack of evidence otherwise, I assume people are comfortable with people walking on giant crystals on the assumption they may be lost to flooding in a few years time? Why in that case do we care about muddy tat in squalid holes in the UK, which may be there for perpetuity, but are muddy tat nevertheless.



Robin

Offline mikem

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Re: Naica Cave - Mexico's Cave of Crystals
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2010, 09:58:47 pm »
Quote
but are muddy tat nevertheless
Coz it's our muddy tat - go find yer own!

Mike