Author Topic: Ultimate Snack  (Read 1439 times)

Offline E McK

  • Meh
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Ultimate Snack
« on: June 24, 2021, 09:19:05 pm »
What's everyones go to snack when taking something underground?

Sweet or savoury, or do you not even bother!?!

Where there's a will there's a way :)

Online Ian Ball

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1169
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2021, 09:25:55 pm »
Big question, whatever is in the Clapham shop on the way up, usually a flapjack if I'm spoilt for choice.

Offline Oscar Doyle

  • player
  • **
  • Posts: 104
  • TSG
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2021, 09:29:12 pm »
Gotta be a Mars bar, or the closest Aldi knock off.

Offline JackSherlock

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2021, 09:56:47 pm »
Nothing better than a sausage roll and a full fat can of coke.

Offline AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1527
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2021, 09:58:39 pm »
Flapjack, for preference my home-baked stuff made with a dash of black treacle and sultanas.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2094
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2021, 10:12:19 pm »
Mars bars/Yorkie bars are my go to. Yorkie bars hold their own a little better against your body heat whereas mars bars melt more.

I usually buy the packs of 3 or 4 and shove all of them in my oversuit, not bothering to unwrap them from the multipack, as it adds an extra layer of protection from heat/water/mud.

If your taking a bag/Daren drum you could probably take different snacks down.

Without getting too geeky, in the last year I read up on carbs etc so I could go on longer cycle rides. British cycling recommends 0.5-1g of carbs per kg of body weight per hour. I ignore this and if I’m going for a long ride aim for 30-60g of carbs per hour.
 Typically a mars bar will give you at a guess 27g of carbs. So pretty good!

British cyclings reasoning for this advise is something to do with using up glycogen in muscles in the first two hours of intense exercise. Whether you deem caving to be intense or not depends on your fitness, what type of cave it is and how much you drank the night before ;)

I’ve not necessarily needed to know any of this since I started caving, but I guess it’s helped to know it, given that I now can’t rely on a trusty fry up before every single caving trip. Now eating porridge like every other day, then not eating till the evening cannot be good for your performance.

On trips with Stuart France and John Stevens in South Wales (on separate trips) I was amazed that they pulled out sandwiches. And in some respects now I know more I can see why! Probably about 40g of carbs in a sandwich at a guess, so a good addition into the arsenal of caving gear to have a decent trip.

There is probably something to be said too for the use of well timed sugary drinks/lucozade if this is better for you to carry, it will both hydrate and give you the energy in an hour that you’ve decided you need it.

Offline RobinGriffiths

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1260
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2021, 10:15:52 pm »
Pack of pork scratching stuffed into the helmet.

Offline alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2094
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2021, 10:18:44 pm »
I did also once take a soreen loaf caving, which I know some people swear by, but then I also carried a few diving bottles for a friend and a book to read.

The book was trashed in colostomy, (after only reading one or two pages!) as I think the dry bag it was in leaked a little.

I trashed the bag I was carrying the diving cylinders in, and I also demolished the soreen loaf cos it was tasty!

Offline E McK

  • Meh
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2021, 10:34:46 pm »
Mars bars/Yorkie bars are my go to. Yorkie bars hold their own a little better against your body heat whereas mars bars melt more.

I usually buy the packs of 3 or 4 and shove all of them in my oversuit, not bothering to unwrap them from the multipack, as it adds an extra layer of protection from heat/water/mud.

If your taking a bag/Daren drum you could probably take different snacks down.

Without getting too geeky, in the last year I read up on carbs etc so I could go on longer cycle rides. British cycling recommends 0.5-1g of carbs per kg of body weight per hour. I ignore this and if I’m going for a long ride aim for 30-60g of carbs per hour.
 Typically a mars bar will give you at a guess 27g of carbs. So pretty good!

British cyclings reasoning for this advise is something to do with using up glycogen in muscles in the first two hours of intense exercise. Whether you deem caving to be intense or not depends on your fitness, what type of cave it is and how much you drank the night before ;)

I’ve not necessarily needed to know any of this since I started caving, but I guess it’s helped to know it, given that I now can’t rely on a trusty fry up before every single caving trip. Now eating porridge like every other day, then not eating till the evening cannot be good for your performance.

On trips with Stuart France and John Stevens in South Wales (on separate trips) I was amazed that they pulled out sandwiches. And in some respects now I know more I can see why! Probably about 40g of carbs in a sandwich at a guess, so a good addition into the arsenal of caving gear to have a decent trip.

There is probably something to be said too for the use of well timed sugary drinks/lucozade if this is better for you to carry, it will both hydrate and give you the energy in an hour that you’ve decided you need it.

Quite interesting tbh, if you take a big day out underground most people don't even think too take food or water then wonder why they are so trashed when they exit!

I'm 100% on board with screen. So hard not to just stuff the lot in in a oner though   :lol:
Where there's a will there's a way :)

Offline Minion

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 246
  • Diggas With Attitude
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2021, 10:58:05 pm »
Morrison’s vegan Cornish pasties are the ones for me! Proper good stodge, lots of carbs and fat. You can fit two comfortably into one of the Inglesport waterproof box things, I forget which size box and the website is down so can’t check.

Online andrewmc

  • BCA ind. rep.
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • EUSS, BEC, YSS, SWCC...
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2021, 11:03:56 pm »
Cadbury's brunch bars, and some big bags of skittles I got cheap... :P not the healthiest of cave snacks!

Soreen is held in high regard by EUSS (Exeter Uni). One of their members once clutch and plummeted on a pitch, landing on tackle sack on their back, but remaining miraculously unharmed. Inside the tackle sack a loaf of Soreen however was crushed flat. The Soreen had sacrificed itself to protect its caver...

Offline Gerbil007

  • stalker
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2021, 12:01:45 am »
A Pork Pie or two does the trick for me and they tend to be pretty resilient to rough treatment. Flapjack gets an honorable mention.

I did once take some leftovers from a roast dinner on an Upper Flood Swallet digging trip. The plastic container ended up cracked, leaving me with barely recognisable slices of pork, swimming in a blend of greyish brown mush, consisting of mashed potato, parsnip, gravel and stream water. Still ate it.
Winner winner, chicken dinner!!

Offline cavemanmike

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 758
  • ucet
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2021, 12:03:27 am »
On a half decent trips my go to is hot (look warm) coffee, Mars bars and a banana.
Happy energized caver

Offline Oscar Doyle

  • player
  • **
  • Posts: 104
  • TSG
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2021, 03:15:03 am »
Always thought those squeezy cycling energy sachets would be the best as long as you focus on the robust and compact form factor and not taste or texture.

Would be interested to hear about how people take drinks as it's a pain lugging a big plastic water bottle about in the top of the bag. Perhaps one of those water filtration staws so you could just drink out of sumps and pools?

Overall I think de hydration can be more of an issue considering lots of people don't think about drinking underground, especially in wet places.

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6064
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2021, 07:00:08 am »
By pure coincidence the following article popped up on the UKHillwalking site this morning. I've not read it but mention it here in case it helps.

I hope a proper nutritionist gets involved in this discussion because certain of the suggestions above aren't ideal for a (smooth) energy delivery point of view.

Maybe this topic will lead on to a separate one on what's the perfect caving breakfast, which would be interesting. (Or maybe that's been done before?)

Anyway, here's the UKH link: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/health/the_best_hill_snacks_-_top_trumps-13708?&utm_campaign=ukh_2021_25&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ukh_newsletter

Offline Blueberry

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2021, 07:39:24 am »
For hill walkers it seems to be cold pizza. mmm...

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6064
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2021, 07:48:46 am »
For hill walkers it seems to be cold pizza. mmm...

No thanks . . .  :yucky:

Online Tomferry

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 375
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2021, 08:01:03 am »
Interesting article I am very limited in the caving world but the trips I have done i attached my 2l dry sack to my belt , I had to find the perfect bottle to fit inside it which for me was a 330ml oasis bottle with lukarzade  then In the same bag I have a so called “ impossible” to break box which is small in that I have a extremely small first aid collection of items and a Mars bar and pepperoni sticks  .


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Baoblaze-Waterproof-Canoeing-Swimming-Drifting/dp/B07DKDZ117/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?adgrpid=121371770761&dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIssmxo5qy8QIVmKl3Ch2eugT7EAAYASAAEgKmW_D_BwE&hvadid=498450009506&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=1007208&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7491026125159684521&hvtargid=kwd-315467822369&hydadcr=16124_1768992&keywords=2l+dry+sack&qid=1624604206&sr=8-6


https://www.lansdaleuk.com/kombat-survival-kit-5832-p.asp?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxsPdgJuy8QIVRLDtCh1dyAe8EAQYAyABEgLvp_D_BwE



Online Fulk

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4636
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2021, 09:32:51 am »
Cold pizza? No way; then again, somebody in the article recommended cold fried-egg sandwich.

Offline paul

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4693
  • Orpheus CC, NPC
    • Orpheus Caving Club
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2021, 10:04:38 am »
Mars bars for me.

I once caved with a fellow club member who pulled out a cold slice of pizza from the night before, wrapped in aluminium foil, from her helmet. I would have been willing to swap, but she wouldn't. I always thought cold pizza would taste disgusting, but having tried it, I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was.
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline MJenkinson

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 549
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2021, 10:22:11 am »
I have enough fat on me so I don't bother  ;D I just ensure i am adequately rehydrated at the nearest public house afterwards.

I did once take a flapjack underground, only to find to my dismay that all that remained was a small tacklesack filled with gritty porridge after a wet crawl. The wrapping on an inglesport flapjack appears to not be IP67 rated.

Offline RobinGriffiths

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1260
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2021, 10:23:31 am »
If you were to have cold pizza in foil - maybe with low relief toppings e.g. salami, and moulded it tightly around the top of your head before putting on the helmet, it would be nice and warm in a few hours.

Online andrewmc

  • BCA ind. rep.
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • EUSS, BEC, YSS, SWCC...
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2021, 12:02:41 pm »
I find spicy and sweet pizza (e.g. Pizza Hut with barbeque sauce base and chili/jalapenos) are much better cold than soggy tomato sauce pizzas...

Offline sinker

  • stalker
  • ***
  • Posts: 259
  • O-Level woodwork BlockbusterVideo Gold Card
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2021, 12:24:42 pm »
Someone I know (  :ang: ) had a can of Monster Energy Drink in his rucksack.
During a particularly tight squeeze he managed to burst the can. Waterproof rucksack, no problem, just drink it straight out of the rucksack!!

Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline E McK

  • Meh
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2021, 12:32:55 pm »
Always thought those squeezy cycling energy sachets would be the best as long as you focus on the robust and compact form factor and not taste or texture.

Would be interested to hear about how people take drinks as it's a pain lugging a big plastic water bottle about in the top of the bag. Perhaps one of those water filtration staws so you could just drink out of sumps and pools?

Overall I think de hydration can be more of an issue considering lots of people don't think about drinking underground, especially in wet places.

I just drag a Nalgene bottle around with me, although I very rarely remember to take it then curse loudly when I realise I forgot it and promptly forget to take it next time I go caving as well  :lol:
Where there's a will there's a way :)

Online Tomferry

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 375
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2021, 01:28:23 pm »
Meat feast pizza with chillis on it cracking the next day !!!

Offline droid

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2451
  • WMRG
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2021, 01:51:42 pm »
My main nutrition was a packet of Benson and Hedges....




No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline kay

  • Not a
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2753
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2021, 02:25:20 pm »
A caving companion came equipped with Kendal mint cake. Unfortunately the result was that I found myself crawling in pleasantly mint scented water.

Offline ZombieCake

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1348
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2021, 04:11:05 pm »
Packet of Polos (the holes save weight!) pretty much essential, and Snickers or similar chocolaty stuff. Maybe a bottle of H2O or a juice carton.  Defo a can of full fat coke afterwards.

Offline alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2094
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2021, 05:39:37 pm »

I just drag a Nalgene bottle around with me, although I very rarely remember to take it then curse loudly when I realise I forgot it and promptly forget to take it next time I go caving as well  :lol:

I remember a particularly good night at the chapel when I was a student, couldn’t find any plastic bottles to fill with water. I did find an empty glass bottle that would have had something like lambrini in it. So I filled the glass bottle with water and took it to eldon hole, it remained intact, but I wouldn’t recommend the option for general caving!

Offline Wardy

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2021, 06:24:02 pm »
Eat Natural bars for me especially the non chocolate one - nuts, fruit and some sugar for good measure.
Biggest issue is probably loading up in advance and so my preferred breakfast is generally beens on toast topped with a poached egg.

As for a drink you have to say that if its good enough to crawl in..........

Offline Wardy

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2021, 06:42:13 pm »
The best underground snack I have ever "found" was on the way out from the Hard Rock cafe.
I was about two thirds of the way out of the Darren entrance crawl with a tongue that was in danger of becoming dryer than my sense of humour, when I spotted a perfect orange Opal Fruit (starburst).
It was sat on a small sand bank, just out of the water - waiting patiently to be eaten.
The wrapper had no marks on and at first I thought it could be a mirage appearing there to taunt me.
Initially I also felt a little guilty, but there was no one in front to hand it back to.
Then I thought of those behind and realised I needed to eat it quick without them knowing, to spare their anguish at missing out.
I reached out and yes it was real.
Within seconds it wrenched all the remaining liquid from my body and forced it through my saliva glands, but god my tongue felt good.
Not sure it made the crawl easier. Still wonder how it got there and did the original owner ever miss it?
 

Offline Wardy

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2021, 07:26:52 pm »
A great culinary experience underground was provided by Lugger.

In the mid 80's we were on a CRO and Army caving association trip to the Berger and Fromagere.
This was in the days when you could camp on the Molliere and the army team set up an amazing canteen converting great fresh French produce into expedition food beyond compare.
After a few days of the Army cooking Lugger who has the dietary preferences of a fussy 5 year old was in a different condition to myself and was really struggling.
I needed to go underground to stop eating and do some work and for some reason Lugger was very keen as well, so off we went to rig the big pitch in the Fromagere.
As I was rigging Lugger suddenly went mysteriously silent and expecting mischief I prusicked back up to look for him.
About 50 metres from the top was a small ledge and there was Lugger frantically unpacking a large tackle bag.
He had worked out that those on longer underground trips / camps were entitled to an MoD 24 hour ration pack and he had a tackle bag full of them to stock a lower camp.
After rooting around he found the object of his desire, set up the little stove and shortly afterwards we were both sat in splendid isolation grinning from ear to ear and eating steaming Jam Roly Poly and Custard.
The theory was you had to be underground to qualify and unlike the surface there was no one around to tell us off, so it was fair game.

a week or so later on the same trip I did a trip down the Berger to the Gallery of the Ded and so in preparation I went and collected my ration pack and carefully stashed the goodies in amongst my kit.
I then descended to a camp at the bottom of the great rubble heap and met up with a few others plus a member of the army team who for some reason had been living in the camp for the last week. I grabbed some food from my pack, ate and then sacked out.
Some time later I was woken by a disturbance and it was then that I discovered how the camp resident had survived so long without the need to resurface - there he was going through my tackle bag and picking out items of food a nighttime raider, a true rat.
Not only that, but we all knew there was one item in the pack that you never shared and was valuable beyond belief and he had his hand on them - Oi F*** O** my Rollo's I screamed as I tore my way out of my bivi bag.
Now I may have been a little over protective, but they are hard to replace when underground and abroad, but I never did see him again - next morning he was gone.

So the motto of the stories is that you can probably have whatever you want when you are underground just so long as you don't get caught - mmmmmm Jam Roly Poly, thanks Lugger
 

Offline langcliffe

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2739
    • Caving Routes in the Northern Dales
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2021, 07:42:10 pm »
Lugger must have been a fussy eater - we ate like kings on that expedition.

Offline Wardy

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2021, 08:17:11 pm »
We definitely did, but I never did describe Lugger as a King and his food issues are legendary

Online Brains

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2021, 08:35:18 pm »
Never heard of "left over pizza" or other mythical food stuffs or drinks (What is left over wine FFS?).
Cave snacks are usually flapjacks or penguin type biscuits. Drink is a bottle of water. Keeping the food safe is a problem, seeing a friend at Swinsto GT Aven with a bag of slush that had been inglesport finest flapjack after Simpsons Duck was a terrible thing to see...

Offline AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1527
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2021, 09:08:42 pm »
Left over pizza? The breakfast of students...
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Speleofish

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2021, 09:11:56 pm »
I went on one of those Berger trips (I think there were two). There was something slightly surreal about emerging knackered from the Berger, then staggering across the Sornin plateau to be greeted by beers and an enormous meal at midnight in a great big khaki marquee.

Worst memory was spending slightly longer underground than originally intended. I'd promised to be out by 4 so that I could take my wife out to dinner down the valley to celebrate her birthday. I got the 4 bit right but was 12 hours late. 0400 on the Sornin plateau was cold and frosty. The speleofish tent was several degrees colder....

Online Fulk

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4636
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2021, 11:05:53 pm »
I have good memories of the second of those Army/CRO trips to the Berger. As I recall, Jack Sheldon had organized a team of Army caterers on the pretence that it wold be like a 'real (war) situation', i.e. there'd be soldiers (cavers) appearing at any hour of the day or night demanding to be fed . . . except that there were no bullets or bombs flying round. The Army cooks did a brilliant job; I recollect staggering back into the camp after a 19-hour bottoming trip, topped off with getting lost in the  forest as I got out at some silly hour in the morning, to be greeted with a huge (and much needed) breakfast.

Offline Dickie

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 147
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2021, 03:21:11 am »
Me and Bulmers found a can of mackerel in brine down the Sniezna cave in Poland in 1974, left from the original exploration in the 60s - deliciously disgusting!
Amazin Razin rools OK!

Offline A_Northerner

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 249
  • SUSS 'til you die (Also BPC + CDG)
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2021, 01:50:54 pm »
Soreen and a block of marzipan. Cave-proof and calorie-dense. Also feels like eating Christmas Cake if you have them together. Now all you need is a block of mature cheddar to go with it.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from hill to plain.

Offline pwhole

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2987
  • TSG, DCA, PDMHS
    • Phil Wolstenholme website
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2021, 04:30:31 pm »
A Peveril Stores cherry and chocolate flapjack usually does me, but the Soreen mention reminded me of their recipe for a malt loaf flapjack - that surely must be the pinnacle of cave food? In fact I may have to try this:



https://www.soreen.com/recipes/chocolate-soreen-flapjack/

Offline cavemanmike

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 758
  • ucet
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2021, 06:52:38 pm »
Blooooody hell.
I'll have to make some of that now.
Yum yum

Offline chunky

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 667
  • The Dudley, SWCC
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2021, 09:03:56 pm »
Cadbury Black Forest bars! yum

Online 2xw

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 772
  • YUCPC, SUSS
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2021, 10:25:17 am »
Mix corn chips, hazelnut M&Ms and chocolate cookies in a freezer bag, crush them up. Eat like a horse bag.

Offline AR

  • Black shadow
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1527
  • PDMHS, ATAC, ANHMS
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2021, 11:03:57 am »
Rice crispie cake is another easy one to make that's robust enough for taking underground - melt some butter in a pan, chop up some mars bars and melt those in the butter, stir in a load of rice crispies, pour into a tray and leave to cool.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline cavemanmike

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 758
  • ucet
Re: Ultimate Snack
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2021, 11:23:01 pm »
Geeeez.
You guys are nut

 

Main Menu

Forum Home Help Search
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal