Author Topic: Gwynedd Slate Landscape  (Read 1812 times)

Offline davel

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Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« on: July 28, 2021, 01:33:20 pm »
It seems the bid for World Heritage status for the Gwynedd slate landscape has been successful.

See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57986167

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Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2021, 01:35:40 pm »
I've been reading this with interest in news for a while. I have to admit I don't know what it means. What are the consequences of getting that label?
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2021, 01:50:55 pm »
You get to build loads of garishly-modern office and retail space right in the middle of the old stuff? ;)

Seriously though, this is really good news.

Offline SamT

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2021, 02:07:17 pm »
I assume that's the llanberis slate quarrys then. 

Wonder how the climbing there would be affected.   

It'll not last for ever, they're all falling down at a rapid (in geological terms) rate.

Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2021, 02:35:36 pm »
Good news if you're a signwriter with a contract with Gwynedd. You get to make a heap of dual language signs

UNESCO world heritage site
Dwi allan o swydd

If you know the incident I'm referring to ;)
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Offline SamT

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2021, 02:38:32 pm »

Offline Digit

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2021, 02:48:02 pm »
Good news if you're a signwriter with a contract with Gwynedd. You get to make a heap of dual language signs

UNESCO world heritage site
Dwi allan o swydd

If you know the incident I'm referring to ;)

If you follow the lead of some other sites you also need to get it right in Spanish, French, German, Japanese and Chinese.

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2021, 03:43:00 pm »
I guess the council will think twice about planning permission in future, lest they go the same way as Liverpool Docks. Interestingly, Caernarfon had a 'public warning' from Unesco when the Victoria Docks 'development' was built a few years ago.

Corris doesn't seem to be on the list unless it's lumped in with Bryneglwys.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the currently working quarries, particularly those bulk-working the tips.


Offline Digit

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2021, 04:40:48 pm »
Just been having a quiet mental chuckle about the possibilies of confusion now there are two overlapping World Heritage Sites.  Suppose Edwards Castles WHS was having a bit of a do and the Norman Knight re-enactors turned up at say the Prince of Wales Quarry.
Unlikely maybe, or maybe not I was once stopped on the A5 in Bangor (before the bypass) and asked "Is it much further to Carmarthen?".  "About 3+ hours" didn't go down to well.

Offline Digit

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2021, 04:44:10 pm »
I guess the council will think twice about planning permission in future, lest they go the same way as Liverpool Docks. Interestingly, Caernarfon had a 'public warning' from Unesco when the Victoria Docks 'development' was built a few years ago.

Corris doesn't seem to be on the list unless it's lumped in with Bryneglwys.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the currently working quarries, particularly those bulk-working the tips.

The list appears to be:-
    Penrhyn slate quarry, Bethesda and the Ogwen Valley to Port Penrhyn
    Dinorwig slate quarry mountain landscape
    Nantlle Valley slate quarry landscape
    Gorseddau and Prince of Wales slate quarries, railways and mill
    Ffestiniog's slate mines, quarries, "city of slates" and the railway to Porthmadog
    Bryneglwys slate quarry, Abergynolwyn village and the Talyllyn railway
    Aberllefenni slate quarry

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2021, 04:53:32 pm »
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the currently working quarries, particularly those bulk-working the tips.

These are in the 'buffer zones'.

The full Management Plan for the proposal may be found at:

https://www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru/en/Council/Documents---Council/Have-your-say/Slates/Slate-Landscapes-ENG-190809.pdf

Offline alex17595

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2021, 06:43:06 pm »
What could this mean in regards to access to the mines? I can't see the entrances to places like Croesor and Rhosydd surviving very long if they start getting even more groups of unprepared tourists.

Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2021, 07:21:36 pm »
Rhosydd is safe, a foot of water is plenty protection from people casually wandering in. Croesor more of a concern, but if gated there's the shaft, wouldn't be quite the same though as an "introductory" trip with its powers to corrupt innocent urbex and climbers into further subterranean trips.
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2021, 10:59:56 pm »
Heh. We met a couple of urbexers coming up the incline at M**noff*r*n on Saturday. No helmets, and a couple of hand torches. Just did the 'first level going off on the right as you go down' - not sure what terminology for veins, chambers etc. is down there. Quite a bit of death potential where roofing tunnels break through into massive chambers below though. Should really post some photos of the mill now that AN is down.

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2021, 08:09:14 am »
You get to build loads of garishly-modern office and retail space right in the middle of the old stuff? ;)

Seriously though, this is really good news.

No if you do that you lose your heritage status   :lol:
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2021, 08:11:38 am »
Rhosydd is safe, a foot of water is plenty protection from people casually wandering in. Croesor more of a concern, but if gated there's the shaft, wouldn't be quite the same though as an "introductory" trip with its powers to corrupt innocent urbex and climbers into further subterranean trips.

Rhosydd   :-\  A small linear platform would easily avoid any wet fee
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Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2021, 12:09:18 pm »
Rhosydd is safe, a foot of water is plenty protection from people casually wandering in. Croesor more of a concern, but if gated there's the shaft, wouldn't be quite the same though as an "introductory" trip with its powers to corrupt innocent urbex and climbers into further subterranean trips.

Rhosydd   :-\  A small linear platform would easily avoid any wet fee
Well you say "small", but any platform to keep feet dry walking in to Adit9 would need to be 2,221 foot long
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2021, 01:48:12 pm »
Links between slate industry and slavery. But you wouldn't expect anything else from the Pennants.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/the-links-between-welsh-slate-and-slavery

I'm for for a trundle around Wrysgan now.

Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2021, 02:31:08 pm »
Be careful, the words "trundle" and "trundling" seems to be gaining ground (US influence possibly) to mean chucking big rocks off cliffs or rolling them down steep slopes. Commonly, not what I'd call "scalling" for safety work but giggling idiots doing it for fun, clearly not thinking of others. Unless of course that's what you meant, and you plan to roll a huge boulder down the incline/tunnel?

Enjoy!!
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Offline alex17595

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2021, 04:04:48 pm »
Rhosydd is safe, a foot of water is plenty protection from people casually wandering in. Croesor more of a concern, but if gated there's the shaft, wouldn't be quite the same though as an "introductory" trip with its powers to corrupt innocent urbex and climbers into further subterranean trips.

Rhosydd   :-\  A small linear platform would easily avoid any wet fee


Someone dug a trench in front of it not long ago, so the water level is much lower than it used to be. You might even be able to get in with walking boots.

I went for a walk up there yesterday and for the first time I actually saw other people in the adit.

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2021, 06:07:37 pm »
Rhosydd is safe, a foot of water is plenty protection from people casually wandering in. Croesor more of a concern, but if gated there's the shaft, wouldn't be quite the same though as an "introductory" trip with its powers to corrupt innocent urbex and climbers into further subterranean trips.

Rhosydd   :-\  A small linear platform would easily avoid any wet feet
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2021, 06:08:53 pm »
Be careful, the words "trundle" and "trundling" seems to be gaining ground (US influence possibly) to mean chucking big rocks off cliffs or rolling them down steep slopes. Commonly, not what I'd call "scalling" for safety work but giggling idiots doing it for fun, clearly not thinking of others. Unless of course that's what you meant, and you plan to roll a huge boulder down the incline/tunnel?

Enjoy!!

As said the water doesn't stretch nowhere near as far as it did or as deep   :thumbsup:
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2021, 09:31:21 pm »
Be careful, the words "trundle" and "trundling" seems to be gaining ground (US influence possibly) to mean chucking big rocks off cliffs or rolling them down steep slopes. Commonly, not what I'd call "scalling" for safety work but giggling idiots doing it for fun, clearly not thinking of others. Unless of course that's what you meant, and you plan to roll a huge boulder down the incline/tunnel?

Enjoy!!

What would have been good would be a huge Indiana Jones style boulder, drop it through the Wrysgan incline tunnel head, and thence down the incline. Reminds me of the funny Indiana Jones boulder p*ss take they did in Labyrinth!

Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2021, 10:18:38 pm »
Wow, last time I was there was way back in end October 2020 (family illness or I'd have been back at maybe twice since then). Back then there was one part where I had to step on rocks so it didn't over-top my wellies. Sounds like this trench has been effective. I'm split between grumbling the deterrent is gone, and warmly thanking whoever for digging it
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Offline wormster

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2021, 11:19:39 am »
Be careful, the words "trundle" and "trundling" seems to be gaining ground (US influence possibly) to mean chucking big rocks off cliffs or rolling them down steep slopes. Commonly, not what I'd call "scalling" for safety work but giggling idiots doing it for fun, clearly not thinking of others. Unless of course that's what you meant, and you plan to roll a huge boulder down the incline/tunnel?

Enjoy!!

AH!! the ancient sport of climbers, walkers and me since the early 1970's, my eldest brother introduced me to the sport when he was at Bangor studying Outdoor Persuits under Brailsford's influence, he did tell me about riding big slabs down the hills like a surfboard after climbing the slabs! - such fun!

Mind you its been many a moon since I last had a go, and when I do I always make sure that there's nobody about when selecting a suitable candidate for a good trundle down the hill!
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Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2021, 08:16:32 pm »
I worked in Llanberis for many years and a lot of the old boys had a thumb or one of there fingers missing because as kids they used to slide down the snowdon railway tracks on a slab of slate and inevitably catch a finger or thumb on the track.
Owch  :o :o :o

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2021, 08:31:38 pm »
Then if they went on to work in the slate dressing sheds, there's a fair chance they'd lop another one off. My uncle had two missing after working with a Greaves trimmer.

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2021, 09:48:15 am »
I worked in Llanberis for many years and a lot of the old boys had a thumb or one of there fingers missing because as kids they used to slide down the snowdon railway tracks on a slab of slate and inevitably catch a finger or thumb on the track.
Owch  :o :o :o

Have a look at this (from an interview with Joe Brown):

https://youtu.be/dmEz2GLo_wM?t=1643
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Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2021, 11:18:12 am »
I had a grandad who was a steel worker (looked and sounded very much like Fred Dibnah) and he had the little finger and half the ring finger missing on left hand, it might have been much worse if his wedding ring hadn't saved him.

Not just slate workers who lost fingers, they didn't believe in having too many guards etc on machines back in the day...
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Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2021, 11:26:45 am »
I worked in Llanberis for many years and a lot of the old boys had a thumb or one of there fingers missing because as kids they used to slide down the snowdon railway tracks on a slab of slate and inevitably catch a finger or thumb on the track.
Owch  :o :o :o

Have a look at this (from an interview with Joe Brown):

https://youtu.be/dmEz2GLo_wM?t=1643
What an absolute legend of a man and so modest.
He's right in what he said about we will never have the same climbing experience he has as it's getting more and more difficult to put up new routes

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2021, 11:45:24 am »
I had a grandad who was a steel worker (looked and sounded very much like Fred Dibnah) and he had the little finger and half the ring finger missing on left hand, it might have been much worse if his wedding ring hadn't saved him.

Not just slate workers who lost fingers, they didn't believe in having too many guards etc on machines back in the day...

Before Health and Safety had been invented, what we did back in my youth on the building sites ! looking back makes me cringe .    :chair:
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Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2021, 12:37:44 pm »
What an absolute legend of a man and so modest.
He's right in what he said about we will never have the same climbing experience he has as it's getting more and more difficult to put up new routes
True, we might get opportunities as old ones collapse, slate for example, but also Cwm Silyn has been playing that game in recent years. Sadly it's as likely to make existing ones harder, but sometimes it presents new routes and just occasionally ones at a low enough grade that an inept "cycling window cleaner" (to use the Joe Brown expression) like me might just be able to manage
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Online PeteHall

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2021, 01:39:33 pm »
Not just slate workers who lost fingers, they didn't believe in having too many guards etc on machines back in the day...

Not that unusual even in more recent times.

My neighbour is missing the index finger on his left hand, after a site accident 20 years ago (that was a cement mixer). They did sew it back on, but it caused him so much trouble he told them to cut it off again!   :lol:

A couple of years ago, he tried to balance things out by shattering the bone in the index finger on his right hand, but they were able to save that one.

My neighbour where I grew up also lost a finger to an old circular saw on the farm, but that was so badly gored that they didn't even try sewing it back by all accounts. That was after I'd left home (and before he died) so something in the range of 5-15 years ago.

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2021, 02:21:41 pm »
There's always one cock who wants to piss on the fire:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/the-links-between-welsh-slate-and-slavery

As if that's going to change anything?, should we fill in the quarries and demolish all vestiges of the industry as some sort of reparation?

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Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2021, 02:35:40 pm »
That's the statue debate all over again. Everyone, including "great" people are flawed when you look closely. There are many people with statues that did 1 very bad thing for every 10 very good things.

Do we revise history and pull down the statues, or openly recognise the mix of things they did?
Anyone who gets the contract to fill in Penrhyn again had better win it on time and materials basis!

(Although in the case of George Pennant/2nd Baron Penrhyn the ratio was probably closer to 20 very bad things to each good thing, or worse?)
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Offline Speleotron

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2021, 04:06:52 pm »
Are there any remaining rails where you can ride down on a rock like in that video? I wouldn't fancy it on the Dinowric inclines. I don't really remember any long sections of rail that aren't knackered in some way but maybe there is one out there somewhere. My knowledge is very Dinorwic centric.
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Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2021, 04:17:57 pm »
Wow, that sounds dangerous, a far safer option  :doubt: would be Snowdon Mountain Railway and something like this, 2 skateboards and a bit of wood. But if you do it and break both your legs, just don't come running to me



Edit...  if you did it at night and were prepared to run away from angry people... maybe could run like that all the way from Blaenau to Penrhyndeudraeth   (give or take jumping off for a few level crossings, and maybe the new tunnel is flat?). I wonder with the right skateboards and speed on your side if you could do it in one go without walking?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 04:27:40 pm by Cantclimbtom »
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Offline Roger W

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2021, 05:31:13 pm »
It's not a railway track, but has anyone tried skateboarding down Winnats?
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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2021, 05:48:40 pm »
It's not a railway track, but has anyone tried skateboarding down Winnats?

The cattle grid at the bottom might be a bit of a challenge... :lol:
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2021, 08:21:26 pm »
Wow, that sounds dangerous, a far safer option  :doubt: would be Snowdon Mountain Railway and something like this

Reminds me of the lunatic who drove up the Snowdon Railway track in his 4x4 a few years ago. Not once, but twice.

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2021, 08:59:19 pm »
Wow, that sounds dangerous, a far safer option  :doubt: would be Snowdon Mountain Railway and something like this

Reminds me of the lunatic who drove up the Snowdon Railway track in his 4x4 a few years ago. Not once, but twice.

That was a stroke of genius! Mind you, I think they threw the book at him.

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Offline sinker

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2021, 09:09:22 pm »



That was a stroke of genius!



In a Frontera....!

Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2021, 09:54:43 pm »
That was a stroke of genius! Mind you, I think they threw the book at him.

Chris.

It was a pretty enterprising endeavour to be fair.

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2021, 08:06:10 am »
It's not a railway track, but has anyone tried skateboarding down Winnats?


I bet they have , after all they jump of the top with parachute on .
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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2021, 09:29:28 am »
It's not a railway track, but has anyone tried skateboarding down Winnats?

I thought a kids scooter was the way to go down winnats.

Offline ttxela2

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2021, 01:33:47 pm »
There's always one cock who wants to piss on the fire:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/the-links-between-welsh-slate-and-slavery

As if that's going to change anything?, should we fill in the quarries and demolish all vestiges of the industry as some sort of reparation?

Chris.

Presumably though unlike statues to individuals the UNESCO status is at least in part in recognition of all the workers, the technologies and the changes to the landscape that remain representing that part of history rather than one particular individual who was in charge and did other stuff that was questionable?

I imagine you wouldn't have to look far down the list of World Heritage sites to find locations with connections to some right old historical b*stards!

Offline Cantclimbtom

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2021, 01:46:12 pm »
I'd speculate that the removal of Liverpool Maritime Mercantile City would have in part been the  recent emphasis on historical associations with slavery, as much as factor as Everton's stadium (the given reason) in the current scramble to virtue-signal
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Offline NeilC

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2021, 02:12:06 pm »
I'd speculate that the removal of Liverpool Maritime Mercantile City would have in part been the  recent emphasis on historical associations with slavery, as much as factor as Everton's stadium (the given reason) in the current scramble to virtue-signal

Very unlikely, I would have thought. World Heritage status is not an endorsement of any aspect of the site's past, as evidenced by the fact that Auschwitz Birkenau is included in the list.

Offline Digit

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2021, 04:18:03 pm »
Heritage is Heritage, some of it good some of it bad, but it all shapes who we are now.  Trying to change history/heritage by hiding bits of it away is a bad idea, you cannot learn from things that are  hidden away (and with the passage of time then forgotten).

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Re: Gwynedd Slate Landscape
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2021, 04:50:49 pm »
I'd speculate that the removal of Liverpool Maritime Mercantile City would have in part been the  recent emphasis on historical associations with slavery, as much as factor as Everton's stadium (the given reason) in the current scramble to virtue-signal

Nah, they're greedy and as soon as the city became prosperous they decided to throw eyesores up all over the place, catch the wave and milk it dry.
World Heritage Status was just expedient at the time when they had nothing else to trade on; now its booming again and they're all born-again yuppies and "greed is good" then heritage gets kicked to the kerb.
The bubble will burst and it'll be back to being professional victims again.
Human nature is a fickle thing but money talks eh?




Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

 

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