Author Topic: Faggergill Mine Cave  (Read 6945 times)

Online C.Raven

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Faggergill Mine Cave
« on: November 29, 2014, 05:17:21 pm »
I have just been reading the Swaledale section of vol 2 of Caves and Karst of the Yorkshire Dales and was surprised about the size and amount of passage in Faggergill Mine Cave does anyone know if there is any access to this site.

Offline Anonymous x

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2014, 07:07:00 pm »
I'm led to believe it's very limited (from a respectable source), never tried gaining access even a good few years back when I first heard how significant it was, despite it sounding very interesting. The mere fact that so little is known about such a sizeable system and practically nothing published is telling. I'd like to think those behind the exploration will be more open now that details have, partly, been made public.  :doubt:

Offline JAA

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 07:15:50 pm »
Access is very limited indeed unless you belong to the select group favorited by the explorers who re located it, and all entrances are locked and gated. A project for CNCC access officer but sadly I would be amazed if anyone makes any headway here! Very disappointing from a personal perspective as my distant relatives mined there and owned the entrance for a while! I've long since given up trying to get in by asking and removing the gate would be awkward..  :down: :wall:

Offline Beardy

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2014, 08:17:02 pm »
Yes a sorry state of affairs for the second longest cave system in the dales.  Who controls access? Is it still the Earby Mines Research Group?   

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Offline JAA

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2014, 08:45:33 pm »
Beardy I'll send you a PM

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2014, 09:25:17 pm »
It is still Earby Mines who control access. It is primarily seen as a mine that happens to have some cave in it.
As a mine, the access control has resulted in a spectacularly well preserved mine, particularly with regard to the artifacts.
True scholars of mining heritage with the right personal contacts may be able to visit.

Why not contact the authors of that chapter in the book?

Chris.
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Offline Anonymous x

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2014, 11:59:33 pm »
It is primarily seen as a mine that happens to have some cave in it.
A few hundred metres might be considered 'some', not many kilometres.  ::)

Quote
True scholars of mining heritage with the right personal contacts may be able to visit.
As eluded to above, a very privileged few. A rather sad state of affairs if you ask me.

Quote
Why not contact the authors of that chapter in the book?
I don't recall seeing contact details in the book, so that's rather an unhelpful and cheap comment.

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2014, 11:33:57 am »
Quote
Why not contact the authors of that chapter in the book?
I don't recall seeing contact details in the book, so that's rather an unhelpful and cheap comment.
Have you actually tried to find these people? The caving community is very small.......
Are you in any clubs? Have you asked around?
How much more helpful should I be?

Chris.
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 05:37:23 pm »
It's almost always easily possible to make contact with people in the caving community if you're willing to make just a little effort.

I think your comments are extremely helpful Chris - the fact that you even spared the time to try to help should foster gratitude.)

Offline JAA

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 07:06:28 pm »
The folks involved are certainly contactable. I have contact details myself but I'm not prepared to give them out without the permissions of those involved but with reasonable "Google fu" and an ask about for active Swaledale Cavers should sort you out.

I find it disappointing personally that they've taken the view that doing some digging has made them self appointed guardians who are free to grant or refuse permission as the whim takes them and refuse entry to those not "in the know".

I appreciate that effort goes into any major discovery but for me part of that is then disseminating information on what we've found to the general caving world when appropriate. The faggergill stuff isn't new, it's been explored for years, and still it's explorers find new bits almost every time.

And yes there may be important artifacts to consider. Consider a well decorated cave as requiring the same level of care and put in place similar conservation measures perhaps?

When Eli Simpson "gated" Lancs to protect their discovery for the select few, people didn't accept that as just one of those things and in hindsight I think most consider it to be a rather selfish move. I don't see this as much different to be honest. People are naturally going to be interested and Id like to think that some form of more general access could move forward in future, probably with a leader system which personally I'd have no problem with as a way of mitigating the risk to artefacts.

A locked gate and an aura of mystery doesn't still well with me for something in the northern dales but that's a personal view obviously and there's a little bit of personality clash on a personal level in the mix there so make of it what you will

J

Offline Anonymous x

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 07:52:47 pm »
I'd agree with the above, gated, pretty much no access and an aura of mystery does not sit well with me either, I think the same applies to a lot of other cavers/mine-explorers too.

As for comments being helpful; I'm sorry but if everyone started pestering the authors of that chapter they would no doubt get p'd off - is one of the others "part of the in-crowd"? I'm more than capable of using Google, know a number of people in the caving world that could point me in the right direction, but should I have to, would it even be worth it? It's been made blatantly clear that only those "in the know", "true scholars" or "buddies" of the explorers will get in - a very disappointing state of affairs.

And yes, I'm in a couple of clubs, I did ask someone in one of those clubs, who basically said he was looking in to it (this was a few years back). It would appear he's still looking in to it as I've not heard anything, so the best I can say is that comments about who to contact are unhelpful. I'm not going to reveal the persons name, but he is well known and respected, so if he can't gain ground then what hope of anyone else.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 08:00:38 pm »
I find it easier to arrange trips to places that are heavily managed if I haven't bleated all over the internet beforehand about how hard it is and how unfair it is. But maybe that's just me.

Offline Anonymous x

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 08:16:04 pm »
I find it easier to arrange trips to places that are heavily managed if I haven't bleated all over the internet beforehand about how hard it is and how unfair it is. But maybe that's just me.
This is probably the first time it's been "bleated all over the internet" and people have tried to gain access well before this happened and failed. Heavily managed - meaning a very select few, I guess those words might work, at a push. Maybe the more that people become aware of this issue the better, so maybe, just maybe, the internet might help. Who knows.

I don't like smug people posting on issues they don't know the background too, but maybe that's just me.

Offline JAA

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2014, 08:24:03 pm »
I imagine a polite enquiry to members of the moldywarps speleological group may pay dividends as some of their members have been active in this project.

I still think my original points stand and I'm personally not willing to display the required level of fawning to get invited because frankly I don't feel I should have to. People are more than welcome to join me on any projects I have and if they're interested then I've no problem with people getting involved. As someone who's lived within a mile of faggergill for the past 34 years I find it irksome that it's gated but as has been pointed out, complaints on here won't alter that. Perhaps time will.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2014, 08:45:18 pm »
Attitude problem.

Offline JAA

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2014, 08:56:43 pm »
Is that directed at me Peter?

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2014, 08:59:40 pm »
I don't make personal comments. But the overall impression I get reading this topic is that somewhere in the interactions between the various parties, there is an attitude problem.

Offline JAA

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2014, 09:06:50 pm »
Ok, thanks for the reply Peter. I think you're probably right. Locally it's quite an emotive issue with people (and I include myself!) in fairly entrenched positions on it.

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 12:25:39 am »
Not having access to the BCRA book as it's being published online (but looking forward to it's hard copy release), would be interested in a synopsis of the mine/cave should anyone spare the time to do so.

Robin

Offline Blakethwaite

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2014, 12:41:50 am »
It's a gated lead mine which intersects a cave system. Much like the various other lead mines thereabouts which also intersect cave systems which despite being without access restrictions still don't get visited a great deal. Presumably because they are more than twenty minutes away from Inglesport and you can't do a through trip.

Actually, that's not entirely true. One of them does get a few visitors. It used to have loads of miners clog prints through lengthy sections of it but they've largely gone now as people weren't troubling themselves not to stand on them despite the polite notice in place asking them not to do so.

Offline Speleofish

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2014, 12:53:31 pm »
Is it really the 'second longest cave system in the dales'? It would be good to know more about it.

Offline Graham Proudlove

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2014, 03:23:43 pm »
Yes, we really could do with a bit of an account of its exploration history, morphology and hydrology. I thought I knew my Dales caves but this is a new one on me. And I guess second longest in the northern Dales rather than the whole lot. Harrison and Ryder give 7k as an estimate.

Offline Anonymous x

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2014, 04:34:46 pm »
To provide a few snippets from the section on Faggergill; there's a couple of notable maze areas and some linear features, one of which carries a stream. The figure quoted for natural is "in excess of 7km", the line survey only shows levels that provide access to the natural - they look very lengthy in their own right, be interesting to know just how much passage (mined and natural) is down there. At the bottom of the map is a vague line survey of Windegg, which looks positively minute in comparison!

I wish I lived closer to the Northern Dales, some interesting bits and bobs in them there Dales, look forward to reading more about that other big system, Hudgill..

Offline richardg

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2014, 11:42:32 pm »
To those people who complain about caves being gated to preserve them or old mines being gated to preserve the heritage within them,

If they had spent their time, many hours of patient work in opening up these places and discovering extreme beauty or ancient irreplaceable artifacts, would they be happy to just advertise them and invite anyone to descend them and totally destroy this heritage that could be preserved for all.

All it takes is just getting to know those people who control access for the purpose of conservation and are willing to accompany you on such journeys through these gems.

I've been involved in the discovery of many a beautiful cavern, several are now devoid of the beautiful pristine original beauty, smashed up by people with no thought of preservation...

Count yourselves fortunate there are still some mines and caves in the Northern Dales with access restrictions so you can go and see such things as original clog marks made centuries ago...... and to be preserved hopefully for generations to come..




Offline Anonymous x

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2014, 07:58:06 pm »
Was anyone really complaining a great deal about the place being gated? If what I hear is true then I can appreciate why it is. I think the point people are trying to make is the very limited access where it appears you have to ask someone that might know someone that might be able to point you to someone that might give you access. Lots of uncertainty. Have the discoveries/artefacts been documented somewhere sensible, will the information be preserved and made available to future generations? Who knows...  :shrug:

Offline Antwan

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2014, 08:46:48 pm »
If any of the 'guardians' are reading this ( or anyone with contacts) , could we arrange a special trip for any interested forum members? Me included?

Offline Loki

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2021, 08:00:59 am »
Bump....  perhaps the guardians have spent many years perfecting a magnificent survey and photographs in a glossy publication to justify why there is no access and let us enjoy it from our armchairs.
I have no issue with gates or access restrictions as long as we all know what those arrangements are.
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Offline moorebooks

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2021, 04:40:02 pm »
Bump....  perhaps the guardians have spent many years perfecting a magnificent survey and photographs in a glossy publication to justify why there is no access and let us enjoy it from our armchairs.
I have no issue with gates or access restrictions as long as we all know what those arrangements are.
If you read the above you can see where it states clog prints were walked all over in spite of notices. There is a need to preserve mining artifacts in situ many mines have been ransacked and trashed (box for one) . The controlled access is to preserve features not to prevent legitimate explorers. I doubt there is intent to produce a publication.

My club controls access into Snailbeach not to stop genuine explorers , but the usual mob of mineral hunters, artifact ransacking and trashing of important site

Mike

Offline Loki

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2021, 12:18:22 am »
I did read the above and I do agree with protecting caves and mines. Many caves have been trashed by overuse. My point was rather than keeping the place as some kind of big secret let everyone know what’s there by showing us all with some nice pictures at the very least. There’s a lot of people curious to know about it.
Or maybe that’s the point - if people don’t know what’s there they won’t want to go and see it....
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Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2021, 10:58:47 am »
Bona-fide mine exploration societies have held visits there in recent years, although you won't find it named in their journals, nor will you find photos on the interwebs.

So my suggestion would be to get in touch with a few societies and see if they are doing any trips there in the future?, or if they could be persuaded to do so. They will for sure know how to obtain access.

Chris.
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Offline Loki

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2021, 05:08:26 pm »
I’m not interested in going in there, I’m quite happy if it’s restricted for conservation reasons. I’m just very interested to know WHAT is in there. 
Hidden Dips

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2021, 08:38:40 pm »
If it's the mining side, then you could do worse than to purchase a copy of British Mining No. 53:
https://www.nmrs.org.uk/publication/the-arkengarthdale-mines/
available from Moore Books.

If it's the caving side, then you want the BCRA publication Caves and Karst of the Yorkshire Dales, Chapter 31, Caves of Swaledale.
https://bcra.org.uk/pub/dales/index.html?j=2
Probably also available from Moore Books.

Chris.
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Offline Loki

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2021, 03:10:51 pm »
Thanks for pointing that out. I have been meaning to buy volume 2 for ages but never seen a copy. Just bought it today. Just what I needed. Looks like a good read
Hidden Dips

Offline moorebooks

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Re: Faggergill Mine Cave
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2021, 05:08:39 pm »
If it's the mining side, then you could do worse than to purchase a copy of British Mining No. 53:
https://www.nmrs.org.uk/publication/the-arkengarthdale-mines/
available from Moore Books.

If it's the caving side, then you want the BCRA publication Caves and Karst of the Yorkshire Dales, Chapter 31, Caves of Swaledale.
https://bcra.org.uk/pub/dales/index.html?j=2
Probably also available from Moore Books.

Chris.

They certainly are

Mike

 

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