... should be blanket bog...
Quote from: 2xw on May 30, 2021, 09:08:54 am... should be blanket bog...Why should it be a blanket bog?Chris.
Quote from: ChrisJC on May 30, 2021, 12:42:55 pmQuote from: 2xw on May 30, 2021, 09:08:54 am... should be blanket bog...Why should it be a blanket bog?Chris.Cos it was, and now it's degraded, which means it's currently releasing massive amounts of carbon and precursor chemicals that form carcinogens in our drinking water (increasing the cost of treating it)
I am interested in why you say that. Do you have any actual justification?
Which time period are we rewinding the clock to?
As far as I know, post ice age, it became a deciduous forest.
Then neolithic man cleared all of the natural forests in England*, including the high ground in Yorkshire. It became blanket bog as a direct result of man's influence.
*Which does make this idea of 'ancient woodland' a load of old testicles.
This is on the advertising leaflet but does not appear to be on the web.
Hope you enjoyed my opinionated rant!
“Ancient woodland” has nothing to do with Neolithic times. It means an area that has been woodland continuously since before a date a few hundred years ago.
Quote from: kay on May 31, 2021, 08:43:28 am“Ancient woodland” has nothing to do with Neolithic times. It means an area that has been woodland continuously since before a date a few hundred years ago.Unfortunately, most lay-people think that ancient woodland has been in existence since the ice age. It is the wrong word, and very misleading. It is only when you investigate that you find such oxymorons as The New Forest being Ancient Woodland!And it is emotively used to great effect by such political organisations as The Woodland Trust, which I think is very sad and turns me away from them.Chris.
Do you have any evidence that 'most lay-people think that ancient woodland has been in existence since the ice age'? That's certainly not what the word 'ancient' means. The Oxford online dictionary gives two definitions, one of which is 'very old; having existed for a very long time,' which suggests that its use in this context is perfectly appropriate. And I think you are being somewhat unfair to the Woodland Trust. They use emotive language because it is something they care deeply about and because they no doubt feel that the destruction of ancient woodland is a tragedy. It's also a very effective campaigning tool if you want to encourage other people to care about the issue - much more so than simply appealing to people's reason (as we saw in the Brexit debate for example).
... they overstep the line between honest debate and using emotive language / lies to prey on peoples ignorance.
Certainly the Woodland Trust are effective at campaigning, but I feel they overstep the line between honest debate and using emotive language / lies to prey on peoples ignorance.Chris.
Do you have any specific examples?
Yes. There was a segment on the news a few weeks ago with a senior lady from The Woodland Trust. The presenter made a comment along the lines of 'HS2 is obviously cutting down a lot of trees that won't be replaced', to which the lady agreed and supported (I forget the exact words). But that is complete bollocks.https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/49807/hs2-set-to-reach-730000-planted-trees-milestone-by-spring-2021/What she should have said was either 'I don't know if that is true or not', or 'that is not true - HS2 will plant far more trees than they cut down. We would prefer them not to be cut down in the first place but increasing the overall woodland cover is far better than doing nothing at all'.So a few million viewers will take a negative view of HS2 because a lady with gravitas has just lied to them all to suit their political agenda.It's thanks to cretins like that that HS2 is costing a million pounds a bloody meter!! They would have all of us living in caves if they could. Certainly they never would have allowed our civilisation to have reached the current point, what with transportation and housing and such like.I'd be inclined to support them if they were concerned with planting trees, but as soon as you step into 'anti' territory, no thanks!Chris.
Well I didn't see the piece in question, and by your own admission, you can't remember the exact words, but the Trust's website makes it very clear that it is the destruction of ancient woodland that it is opposed to, rather than HS2 per se (https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/protecting-trees-and-woods/campaign-with-us/hs2-rail-link/). Indeed, the Government's own planning guidance describes ancient woodland as an 'irreplaceable habitat' (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ancient-woodland-and-veteran-trees-protection-surveys-licences). (As an aside, the term 'ancient woodland' is a statutory designation, not merely an emotive term used by the WT and others to suit a political agenda.) To state that HS2 will 'plant far more trees than they cut down' is an irrelevant straw man.
Abandoned mine sites tend to be great for wildlife in the medium term, but often mature into something less productive because there are no large mammals tending the environment (like bison etc would have done after the ice age).
If an ancient woodland habitat is irreplaceable, why are there so many SSSI's on post industrial sites? You can't move for falling over some statuary designation on a piece of land that was a hive of industry 150 years ago.
Nature always comes back if left to its own devices.
Looking for old abandoned mines generally involves hacking through the most extraordinary plant growth.
If an ancient woodland habitat is irreplaceable, why are there so many SSSI's on post industrial sites?
I'm now sad that despite a thorough search, my copy of Dr. Rackham's book "Ancient Woodland" seems to have gone missing in a house move.
I'm not sure there is much in the way of caves in this area.
The woodland Trust are asking for donations to buy 550 acres at Snaizeholme "and create vibrant new native woodland for wildlife and people."What do the locals think of this? Is covering the moors with trees again a good or bad thing for the caving environment?https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/support-us/give/appeals/snaizeholme/https://www.streetmap.co.uk/map?x=383500&y=486500&z=120&sv=Snaizeholme&st=3&tl=Map+of+Snaizeholme,+North+Yorkshire&searchp=ids&mapp=map
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