Author Topic: GG rescue  (Read 2565 times)

Offline Groundhog

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GG rescue
« on: June 27, 2021, 11:58:48 am »
I see that 2 guys were rescued from the man shaft last Tuesday:
 https://cro.org.uk/incident-38-2021-june-23rd-wed-gaping-gill-clapham-north-yorkshire-cave-incident/
Not much detail in the report. I assume that when reaching the upper reaches of the shaft they found the conditions too green and slimy.
Was abbing back down not an option or are there long traverses involved?
I am not criticising them in any way, I assume they were experienced. Just curious.

Offline mikem

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2021, 07:07:55 pm »
There isn't an easier way out when you've pulled your ropes down...

Offline Gerbil007

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2021, 07:22:50 pm »
Report says that the shaft was found rigged, so it doesn't look like they pulled the rope down. They must've climbed away from their ropes without a plan B if they couldn't climb out.
Winner winner, chicken dinner!!

Offline mikem

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2021, 08:03:52 pm »
Sorry, it was a FB bad idea back in march to pull through & attempt the climb - which obviously reappeared after latest incident, so I read the suggestion rather than the report. I guess they were out of reach of their entry ropes & may not have had climbing ropes that reached the floor from their high point, or knew their call out would happen before they got down & back up again, which would have meant a longer rescue. Route description:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ingleborough-9935/gee_gee_rider-73355

Online Badlad

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2021, 09:22:11 pm »
They were attempting the rock climb route out, couldn't do it and hadn't made provision for re-ascending the ropes.  There next objective was said to be the Old Man of Hoy.  Not a great lesson in planning.

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2021, 09:53:54 pm »
Glad they're out safe.  Must have been a rubbish wait.

Offline cavemanmike

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2021, 07:27:01 am »
They were attempting the rock climb route out, couldn't do it and hadn't made provision for re-ascending the ropes.  There next objective was said to be the Old Man of Hoy.  Not a great lesson in planning.
The mistake a lot of people make on the old man is they don't take a 60 meter rope for the a sail off which is a must or you won't reach the ground on the last ab

Offline topcat

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2021, 09:52:49 am »
They were attempting the rock climb route out, couldn't do it and hadn't made provision for re-ascending the ropes.  There next objective was said to be the Old Man of Hoy.  Not a great lesson in planning.
The mistake a lot of people make on the old man is they don't take a 60 meter rope for the a sail off which is a must or you won't reach the ground on the last ab

When I did it back in the day we only had 45m ropes and got off just fine.  60 m quite unnecessary.

Offline mikem

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2021, 10:16:59 am »
I guess it depends which way you go.

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2021, 11:26:43 am »
How hard is the GG rock climb?

Offline langcliffe

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2021, 11:49:45 am »

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2021, 01:00:23 pm »
I'm afraid I don't understand the terminology so I thought a little Wikipedia might help

[grades

I now know that I don't know anything about climbing grades.

E3 5C

E3 = Extremely difficult, more than E2 but less than E4 and the hardest is E11 so hard but not the hardest by 8 tiers.

5C = A technical skill level of 5 and 3/4s slightly harder would be 6A? 


To be honest, I'm quite interested in watching someone climb out of there, it's certainly more interesting to me that Jingling and Peak Cavern that was in the other film.


Offline andrewmc

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2021, 03:05:34 pm »
E3 is well within the grasp of mere mortals (I seconded one once, and if I can manage it...), but I suspect this is no ordinary E3 for several reasons:

1) it will only be E3 (at best) when 'in condition' which will be extremely rarely (droughts, possibly winch meets)
2) it's got obvious additional access issues which are simple if you are a caver (and have, for example, rigged Bar Pot for access/retreat as well as the main shaft) but not if you are unfamiliar with the system/'only' a climber
3) that grade was, I presume, set in 1988 when the first free ascent was made - in Yorkshire - and consequently should probably be treated with a fair pinch of salt anyway!

A topo, on cavemaps.org and apparently taken from the 2004 journal of the Gritstone Club (new series volume 9), exists for the curious...

http://cavemaps.org/surveys/gc/full/GC%20J04%20Gaping%20Gill%20-%20GG%20Rider%20Free%20Climb.png

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2021, 03:20:50 pm »
In case it's of interest, I researched and wrote a complete history of free climbing attempts at Gaping Gill. It includes some contemporary photographs and can be found in the 2015 Northern Pennine Club Journal. (I had a lot of help from various CPC members with this, for which I'm very grateful.)

The first complete ascent was made by John Moore and (the late) Roger Baxter Jones in the early 70s. They used the occasional point of aid. The first completely free ascent was the one mentioned above, done by members of the NPC and Gritstone Club.

Note for climbers - GG is a hostile place compared with a typical surface crag. If you're competent in the E3 range this may well not equate to that level of difficulty in a wet (and in places loose) pothole. It needs a totally different level of planning compared with a normal day's cragging.

Offline droid

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2021, 03:24:15 pm »

3) that grade was, I presume, set in 1988 when the first free ascent was made - in Yorkshire - and consequently should probably be treated with a fair pinch of salt anyway!


Ah, memories of the old 'grading wars'.... :lol:
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline mikem

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2021, 05:01:35 pm »
E3 is the grade that most of the top climbers were doing at the start of the 1980s, before that it would have been an XS (which may be a more appropriate grade for it!). Write up of 1st free ascent:
http://www.waddingtons.info/NPC/NEWS/23GG.HTM

Offline Speleofish

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2021, 08:41:34 pm »
I 'remember' (I think) that the original ascent of GG Rider was graded HVS E2? (Pitlamp will correct me if I'm wrong). This sounded quite attractive till I saw the thing... At the time I was climbing E3 with the occasional wind-assisted E4. Absolutely no way was I going anywhere neat GG main shaft without ascenders..



Offline mikem

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2021, 08:47:29 pm »
HVS A2? (That grade was used to cover a lot of sins - some have been regraded at anything up to E4)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2021, 09:05:41 pm »
HVS A2? (That grade was used to cover a lot of sins)

I think "HVS / A1". (There's a definitive account in CPC Journal 4 (6) 1972.)

The problem with trying to grade the first totally free ascent is it's difficult to compare like with like. A good example, for comparison purposes, is Black Grub on Beeston Tor (Peak District). It's a fine E3 route, almost like being on a French crag on a nice day - lovely pockety limestone, with great sheets of hanging ivy. Walkers going past - whom I suppose could be shouted to for help, in extremis. But you can get lowered off or ab off with no real problem. A few good thread runners here & there, which previous ascensionists have conveniently left with rope slings in. You get the picture.

In Gaping Gill you're on your own - no hope of a mobile phone signal there. Even in drought it's wet and cold. The route is loose and wet. The rapid flooding risk is serious. The rock is notoriously green and slimy on the top pitch. The pitches are wandering, so often well away from the rope used to descend. (Can you get to the descent rope if things all go pear shaped?) It's a very serious undertaking, best attempted by folk who are dyed in the wool cavers.

Your averege E3 leader would be well out of their comfort zone, I reckon.


Offline Groundhog

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2021, 09:34:25 pm »
Quote
A topo, on cavemaps.org and apparently taken from the 2004 journal of the Gritstone Club (new series volume 9), exists for the curious...

http://cavemaps.org/surveys/gc/full/GC%20J04%20Gaping%20Gill%20-%20GG%20Rider%20Free%20Climb.png

I see from this that there is a considerable traverse involved which answers my original question. I assume they were beyond this and couldn't retreat. Must have been a cold and draughty wait! Hard luck guys but a bold effort.

Online AR

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2021, 09:27:26 pm »
Not being a climber I know bugger-all about gradings, but this thread did remind me of this cracking track from HMHB's last album about getting stuck rock climbing:
Dirty old mines need love too....

Online PeteHall

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2021, 08:48:13 am »
I've suddenly gained a whole load more respect for one of my company directors (not that I didn't respect him before). I knew Paul Eastwood was a caver and climber, so when I saw the name on the first free ascent of GG Rider, I half jokingly checked with him and yes, it is he!

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2021, 11:16:12 am »
I've suddenly gained a whole load more respect for one of my company directors (not that I didn't respect him before). I knew Paul Eastwood was a caver and climber, so when I saw the name on the first free ascent of GG Rider, I half jokingly checked with him and yes, it is he!

That is supercool!

Offline moletta

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2021, 10:51:08 am »

  Am I right in thinking that an 'A' grade indicates that artifical aid was involved in an ascent?

  Possibly the number indicates how many times it was used?

Offline Speleotron

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2021, 11:38:06 am »
The A means there was at least one point of aid (pulling on your gear or standing in a sling/etrier attached to some gear). The number means how hard the aid move(s) is/are, not how many there are. So A1 would be a nice solid gritstone crack where you can attach solid wires all the way up and just step from one sling to the other. A5 would be some blank granite wall where you're hooking tiny skyhooks onto nothing and you're screwed if they fail. Here's Andy Kirkpatrick on an A4 so A5 must be evil.

In search of taverns measureless to man

Offline mikem

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2021, 05:50:36 pm »
But it's got pegs, so can't be A5...

Offline Speleotron

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Re: GG rescue
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2021, 05:56:29 pm »
Tiny little filed down pegs that are tapped a few mm into a flared crack! And that's only A4.
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