Poll

What'd you think?

Carabiner
7 (20.6%)
Karabiner
17 (50%)
Who cares...
10 (29.4%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: June 16, 2018, 11:53:01 am

Author Topic: Carabiner or Karabiner?  (Read 919 times)

Offline GT

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Carabiner or Karabiner?
« on: June 02, 2018, 11:53:01 am »
I know it sounds daft, but in trying to write up some documents the questions been asked! DMM day Carabiner, as do Petzl. Caving Supplies and Starless River say Karabiners.... Any thoughts?

Offline Graigwen

  • stalker
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 12:06:25 pm »
...all very well, but take care not to confuse with http://www.carabinieri.it/multilingua/en/welcome

.

Online Mark Wright

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 627
  • NCC, BBPC
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 12:07:42 pm »
I remember having this same discussion a few years ago when we were writing the iRATA International Code of Practice. IRATA went for Karabiner but the ISO Code of Practice use Carabiner.

I always use Carabiner in any documents I write on the subject.

Technically speaking they are actually called connectors.

The long and short is that it doesn't really matter how you spell it so long as whichever spelling you choose is the same throughout the document.

Mark

Offline JasonC

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 957
  • KCC
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2018, 05:28:48 pm »
The advantage of "carabiners" is that they become "crabs" in abbreviation, leading to opportunities for humorous enquiries such as "have you got the crabs, then?", whereas "have you got the krabs, then?" is unambiguous and therefore not funny at all....

Online pwhole

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1460
  • TSG, PDMHS
    • Phil Wolstenholme website
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2018, 08:00:01 pm »
Wasn't it originally derivative of 'carbine'? As in a carbine hook? On that basis only (a guess, rather than looking it up) I voted for option 1 ;)

Offline Julian Mann

  • DCRO Training Officer
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2018, 08:52:08 pm »
As long as you don't call then biners I don't care!

Offline mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 05:41:09 am »
Karabiner is the German spelling, carabiner the French...

Mike

Offline HardenClimber3

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 168
  • CPC
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 07:26:20 am »
Carabiner and Krab, (never 'biner)
 ;)

Offline al

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 417
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 08:15:44 am »
I thought that the French spelling was mousqueton??
Old ... but not old enough to know any better

Offline GT

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 10:56:39 am »
According to the font of all knowledge (Wikipedia!)...

A carabiner (/kærəˈbiːnər/) or karabiner is a specialized type of shackle, a metal loop with a spring-loaded gate[1] used to quickly and reversibly connect components, most notably in safety-critical systems. The word is a shortened form of Karabinerhaken (or also short Karabiner), a German phrase for a "spring hook"[2] used by a carbine rifleman, or carabinier, to attach items to a belt or bandolier.


Offline mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 05:25:01 pm »
I thought that the French spelling was mousqueton??

The French do like to make up their own words rather than using something from another language (unlike the English who'll borrow anything).

Offline Barny

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 05:47:39 pm »
Mousqueton is no more made up than the german version. It derives from the french for musket(development of the word appears to be much the same). Probably a word the english language borrowed even before they took up with carbine or similar derivatives. The italian and the spanish use a word spelt much the same so one could surmise that perhaps the greater part of the world's languages use a form similar to the French when referring to biners.

Offline mch

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 08:01:49 pm »
... perhaps the greater part of the world's languages use a form similar to the French when referring to biners.
:o

Offline mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 09:31:36 pm »
Maybe, more accurately, C is the Latin spelling, K the Germanic. K seems to have been around first in climbing terms, but the French have their own version, rather than use a German derivative...

https://gallantry.com/blogs/journal/history-of-carabiners
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 09:43:04 pm by mikem »

Offline mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2018, 09:58:25 pm »
The origin of car(a)bine seems to be even more obscure, but could be from the Greek for CRAB...
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/etymology-of-carbine-carabin-carabinieri-etc.2016498/

Muskets would come across whilst we had French royalty (a musketoon was a blunderbuss), carbines (which are another form of short musket) probably after the Hanoverians took over...

Mike

Offline mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2018, 10:04:16 pm »
Although, according to the Dutch, a musketon hook is not the same as a carabineer:
https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musketonhaak
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 10:31:37 pm by mikem »

Offline ZombieCake

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 511
  • Dun cavin'
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2018, 10:37:30 pm »
With a 'K'. Krabs, Karabiners. Crabs are leggy, claw-y things best served with a nice, cool, dry white wine.

Offline Trig Gledhill

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2018, 08:51:20 am »
I prefer carbonara

Offline mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2018, 09:00:19 am »
Or a can of ribena!

Offline CavingPig

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Re: Carabiner or Karabiner?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2018, 01:56:49 pm »
Following a caving trip to Poland this winter, I now refer to them as Karabinkis. Via ferrata lanyards are now Slinky Karabinkis.