UK Caving

TECHNICAL FORUMS => Equipment => Topic started by: rhychydwr1 on August 16, 2017, 08:39:15 pm

Title: Cave Light
Post by: rhychydwr1 on August 16, 2017, 08:39:15 pm
Just read a review of a new caving light costing US $550!  Is this a record?

Elspeleo Cave Light by Jeff Cody. NSS New August 2017  24-25 illus.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: royfellows on August 16, 2017, 09:28:25 pm
A Dive Scurion is £762. That's pounds not dollars. I am sorry if you were not sitting down when you read this.
 :lol:

Nice kit though, as long as they don't come up against... well.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: ZombieCake on August 16, 2017, 11:29:36 pm
Rubbish, buy a proper caving light.  You can get a candle and a box of matches for around a pound. LEDs are so old school. Bunch of lilly livered snowflakes, what's next using mechanical devices to climb synthetic rope!? What's wrong with raw frozen fingers clinging onto mouldy hemp with the breaking strain of a daffodil?
I got my CIC - Crazy In Charge - discounts available.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Leclused on August 17, 2017, 07:55:09 am
The phaeton Dual costs 520 euro  (Vat included)

http://www.phaethoncavinglight.com/phaethon.html (http://www.phaethoncavinglight.com/phaethon.html)

And they don't even dare to publish the price of the geotere diving torch ;D

http://www.phaethoncavinglight.com/geotere.html (http://www.phaethoncavinglight.com/geotere.html)
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Amata on August 17, 2017, 04:12:19 pm
Now these dont work as dive lights but they are waterproof and submergable.
Zebralights. They come in cool/neutral and earm tint, flood and spot. The Mk2 are on sale currently for $60 since they just released Mk3. We pair a flood with a spot so for $120 usd we have almost 2200 lumens on our head (almost 2600 with mkiii). They throw well and the flood is a great wide angle. Get the 18650 versions. On a normal trip you dont have to change out batteries. Much lighter, no propritary battery packs, no batery pack on the back of your helmet to catch you on the cieling in ducks...

Scurions are great if you have the money and need a diving light.

Id rather more lumens for less that outperforms Scurion etc. weve been using that combo in TAG and other big passage caving for over five years. They are bombproof caveproof lights and we love outbrighting everyone with their monkies/scurions/el speleos etc. And sure you have to carry spare 18650 but net weight is the same because runtime on the zebralights are equivilent to better and they hse half he batteries (so your four pack for scurion lasts as long four singles - one for each spot flood and swap out each once). Also by having two individual lights for spot and flood it is more easily customizable to the cave/passage, as well as being built in redundancy. A lot of folk hardmount them just like you would a cavespecific build.

You want the H600 series.
http://www.zebralight.com/Headlamp_c_7.html (http://www.zebralight.com/Headlamp_c_7.html)
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Topimo on August 17, 2017, 05:15:40 pm
I love not needing to change the battery in my Scurion in really muddy, tight caves! ;)
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Amata on August 17, 2017, 09:14:13 pm
Totally fair if you are doing 8+ hour trips in tight muddy caves! I am not a fan of crawling for that long so it isn't a concern of mine  ;D If it is that tight you dont need much light anyway, any decent light will run for 12+ hours on 100 lumens  ;)
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: badger on August 17, 2017, 09:25:07 pm
not sure the lumens on scurions low settings possibly 600 but will last more than 4 days underground without changing the cell.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Fulk on August 18, 2017, 08:11:14 am
Hi Amata, I clicked on your link and it came up with 33 lamps, all looking rather similar; could you be more specific in your recommendation?
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Ian Ball on August 18, 2017, 10:54:25 am
Quick view guide,  choice of battery chemistry, beam pattern and temperature rating of bulb. 
There are of course many other comparison points which you can interrogate here and see which are discontinued products.

Zebralight Comparison Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WRnPsoYXE9oYKMievC1NOWQyrvSVk8HxkkEMBjAPo_s/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC&pref=2&pli=1#gid=0)

I believe Amata is recommending buying a flood version and a spot version so 2 independant lights, powered by two 18650 cells, though I may be wrong.

They seem a very interesting edition to the caving light debate, I've just gone for a CustomDuo upgrade which struggles to compete with the Fenix HL55 and such 18650 powered devices, but I like it very much.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Fulk on August 18, 2017, 11:43:34 am
Very good of you to tabulate them like that, Ian.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Amata on August 18, 2017, 06:50:19 pm
Hi Amata, I clicked on your link and it came up with 33 lamps, all looking rather similar; could you be more specific in your recommendation?
The 600 series MkII are currently on sale for $69 each since the MkIII were just released (couple hundred lumen brighter, bit better runtimes).
I'd link you to specific but some people prefer warm and some cool. The cool will have slightly more lumens, and I find cameras have a fine time with them for whitebalance and I dont find them cold, but pretty close to "white". The warm/neutral my SO finds nicer to cave on (warm tints give better visual depth perception) but it fucks up my photos.
So basically...pick:
MkII or MkIII of the 600 series
Cool or Warm
and we get one spot and one flood, run both same time for a combo beam (nice to control them independently easily, saves battery too -ex- in crawls turn off spot and turn flood to low). They also have floody option which isn't as wide a beam as the full flood.

Ex: decide save the money and go MkII, want the cool
http://www.zebralight.com/H600-Mk-II-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_130.html (http://www.zebralight.com/H600-Mk-II-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_130.html) is the spotty
http://www.zebralight.com/H600F-Mk-II-Floody-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_129.html (http://www.zebralight.com/H600F-Mk-II-Floody-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_129.html) is the floody (90deg)
OR
http://www.zebralight.com/H602-18650-XM-L2-Flood-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_128.html (http://www.zebralight.com/H602-18650-XM-L2-Flood-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_128.html) is pure flood (120deg)
We combine typically the spotty with 120deg pure flood.

Ian is correct with his understanding :)

This is honestly what people have gone to here and have been using for years from the average caver to the project cavers. There are a few arguments for cave proprietary builds like Scurion left, but for vast majority of cavers those arguments dont matter...I mean if your leftover argument is "I dont like changing batteries underground" I'd still rather save $500 for an equivalent light and have to change batteries every 8-ish hours on a standard trip. Zebralights the end unscrews. Unscrew the end, tip your head, grab the battery, slide the next in. There aren't any connections to futz with, helmet never leaves your head.

I have a Rude Nora v2, and with it pumping every last bit out of it, my SO turns on *just* his spot Zebra and it overbrights my Nora. I have more weight on my head and paid 4x as much for less bright. Had these setups for four years, and i think he has changed his batteries 2-3 times on trips (long survey ones in huge rooms so running them on high a lot), I've had to change mine once. Over four years...not really that huge of a deal IMPO. To change battery on my Nora I have to take my helmet off since it has connector for the pack. Takes way longer and it way more futsy than what he has to do!





Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: mudman on August 18, 2017, 09:56:03 pm
Well Amata has convinced me. It sounds the ideal set up.
I really could never justify 500 quid for a light. I have a neck problem so I have to minimise the weight on my head, especially avoiding anything on the back of the helmet.
I use a fenix at the moment and don't have any plans to change but if I was,  the zebralight setup would be high, if not at the top, of the list.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Fulk on August 18, 2017, 11:34:00 pm
I agree, mudman; I also use a Fenix but the Zebralights sound good.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: maxf on August 19, 2017, 12:00:00 am
How submersible are these zebra lights ? Shallow freediveable ?
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Amata on August 19, 2017, 01:29:14 am
IPX7. 2meters for 30 minutes. Can confirm dunking/climbing in waterfalls/etc all been fine. Ive use them for lighting up gour pools in photography so they sit in water for up to 10 minutes static for that. And we climb fine for hour on rope in a waterfall while time so dynamic pressure is fine. Its not a dive light but you can get through Swildons round trip  fine!
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Amata on August 21, 2017, 03:44:13 am
Oh and for hard mounting your new awesome setup, use this or similar:
http://www.gearbest.com/gun-holsters/pp_374785.html (http://www.gearbest.com/gun-holsters/pp_374785.html)
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Lockchopper on August 21, 2017, 08:45:38 am
The El Speleo Scurion thing looks good, but the battery is a bit skinny and the beam reflector looks a bit gash. The reason I bought a Scurion (1600) is because of the quality of light you get from it.

The more you use it, the cheaper it gets. If you're really serious about your hobby, why would you cut corners?

We'll be onto chinese ascenders next
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Fulk on August 21, 2017, 12:02:04 pm
Hi Amata,

Here's an odd little coincidence; Friday I read your post extolling the virtues of 'twin' Zebralights, Saturday I'm walking upon to Gaping Gill and meets an American caver walking down with twin Zebralights on his hat. The only difference from the set-up you describe is that he had two 'spotty' lights, one pointing slightly to the left, and one to the right. But they seem nice little bits of kit.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Leclused on August 21, 2017, 12:57:35 pm
I have a neck problem so I have to minimise the weight on my head, especially avoiding anything on the back of the helmet.

If you want a lightweight premium cave light check-out the Caldera lamp from Stoots.

http://www.stootsconcept.fr/index.php/lampe-frontale/199-caldera.html (http://www.stootsconcept.fr/index.php/lampe-frontale/199-caldera.html)

145 gr in total (45gr lamp and 100gr battery)
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Ian Ball on August 21, 2017, 05:44:25 pm
The Caldera looks brilliant, but I went with a Duo conversion as I bought a hat with a duo on it.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: nihil_enochian on September 18, 2017, 08:30:17 pm
Here is another one that I found a few days ago.
http://www.pulsarlights.eu/phone/products.html (http://www.pulsarlights.eu/phone/products.html)
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Maj on October 03, 2017, 01:50:42 pm
The Caldera looks brilliant, but I went with a Duo conversion as I bought a hat with a duo on it.

Probably worth keeping your eye on cavers comments and reviews such that when the switch in your Duo or the connections in the battery box go intermittent in 6 - 18mths, you already know what to replace it with.
  ;D

Maj.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: Amata on October 05, 2017, 02:02:27 pm
The Caldera looks brilliant, but I went with a Duo conversion as I bought a hat with a duo on it.

Probably worth keeping your eye on cavers comments and reviews such that when the switch in your Duo or the connections in the battery box go intermittent in 6 - 18mths, you already know what to replace it with.
  ;D

Maj.

We have working old duos with the CustoDuos fromBif still working. Original duos from the 90's mod done in 2010ish.

Often what goes wrong is the connector in the battery box gets coorododed or bent out from touching batteries from too many whacks. Coorosion - clean. Bent - bend back.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: alastairgott on October 05, 2017, 04:45:32 pm
Often what goes wrong is the connector in the battery box gets coorododed or bent out from touching batteries from too many whacks. Corrosion - clean. Bent - bend back.

2 other ways a duo can go wrong.
1) old rechargeables- replace rechargeables with new (they only last so long!).
2) Battery insert wobbling when catches are engaged- (2 solutions)
-- a) put some folded cardboard around the plastic at the bottom of the insert, stopping it from wobbling away from your head (and disengaging from the battery terminals).
-- b) replace the insert with a new one to stop it wobbling.

I've had my 16 led (now Custom) Duo since about 2009 (from new), used most weekends and still strong!

edit: insert was replaced, as it was letting water in  :o
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: potholer on October 25, 2017, 02:04:45 pm
I'm not entirely sure what 'wobbling away from your head' means regarding the battery insert.
Do you mean the bottom of the battery holder moves slightly back from where it should be inside the box?
What's the diagnostic method - trying to tilt the lid in situ, and seeing what happens?
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: alastairgott on October 25, 2017, 10:54:10 pm
Yeh, sorry, it made sense to me :s (at the time).

Imagine the battery insert pivoting around the yellow plastic at the top. If you try to wobble (pivot) it around that point while the clips are on, in normal operation there should be no movement.

I found that my insert WAS wobbling. If you take the insert out, and look at it as though your going to put batteries in (palm of hand, fingertips on the yellow plastic and base of the insert at the heel of your hand). I put cardboard on the section of plastic facing you near the heel of your hand.
 Doing this wedges the batteries in the insert against the contacts and stops them jiggling around.

I gave up on this, as already stated, my battery box was taking on water (mayday mayday!) so replaced the insert.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: sjm on May 29, 2018, 04:52:31 am

Ex: decide save the money and go MkII, want the cool
http://www.zebralight.com/H600-Mk-II-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_130.html (http://www.zebralight.com/H600-Mk-II-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_130.html) is the spotty
http://www.zebralight.com/H600F-Mk-II-Floody-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_129.html (http://www.zebralight.com/H600F-Mk-II-Floody-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_129.html) is the floody (90deg)


Hi Amata, do you have a photo of your setup?
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: thenax on May 29, 2018, 08:10:56 pm
which batteries do you use for zebralight? panasonic 18650b? ARB-L18-2600U? zebralight?
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: nihil_enochian on March 31, 2019, 05:24:47 pm
What do you think about this headlamps? You can buy them at Gearbest for about 30-35eur. They are very similar to zebra lights. Also one question about this type headlamps. How do you use them for mapping, because of their magnetic field wich interfere with compas.

https://www.skilhunt.com/project-cat/h-series/
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: beardedboy on April 01, 2019, 11:03:22 am
What do you think about this headlamps? You can buy them at Gearbest for about 30-35eur. They are very similar to zebra lights. Also one question about this type headlamps. How do you use them for mapping, because of their magnetic field wich interfere with compas.

https://www.skilhunt.com/project-cat/h-series/

I have one of these H03 basic versions. I really like it. Well made and the settings allow you to tweek the levels for your intended use without having loads of settings to cycle through. I personally find the spread of light good for caving, not too much beam and not too much spill. My only real negative is that the colour temperature of the LED is not to my liking.

The magnet is held into the base with a spring clip, so you can very easily remove it. I think that it even came with a silicone disk to replace the location where the magnet came from. So no issue for surveying.


Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: nihil_enochian on April 01, 2019, 03:05:34 pm
As I understand the battery itself create magnetic field which intefere with compas.
What Skilhunt model you use? With floody (TIR) or spot optics, neutral or cold white light?
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: beardedboy on April 01, 2019, 08:48:52 pm
I have the TIR in neutral, which I find to have a very slight green tint on the lower settings.

You are correct in saying that the battery causes a magnetic field, and this is the case with all of these 'zebra' type lights. However the field is relatively small in comparison to the magnet I removed. Having a play with a few of my 18650 cells in this light, they started to affect a compass when within about 60mm. This is far enough not to affect my setup, but you would need to be aware of this affect if you setup was tighter or you were sighting in a constriction.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: nihil_enochian on April 02, 2019, 02:58:27 pm
Would you recomend this skulhunt lamp? What do you think about spot light model and what are the diferences between neutral and cold white light. I am planing to buy one of these but I am still in doubt what model to choose.
Title: Re: Cave Light
Post by: beardedboy on April 02, 2019, 08:47:14 pm
For the price it is a good light. I use it regularly at work and as a backup for caving. The neutral is a warm white/ yellow tint but as i say I find it a bit green in the lower settings. The cold is more blue. It is just down to personal preference. I haven't seen the beam pattern of the OP light, but I don't like caving in a beam, so I suspect that I would find it too tight. The TIR works well from my point of view.