UK Caving

WHERE THE CAVES ARE - The Caving Regions => Peak District => Topic started by: Pete K on July 11, 2020, 02:14:30 pm

Title: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 11, 2020, 02:14:30 pm
DCA are looking for some assistance with capping a couple of holes up near Eldon Quarry for the farmer. These have already been checked out and an application submitted to Natural England for the capping work. While we are waiting for permission to be granted, it seemed wise to seek volunteers to help. Primarily, it is a concrete mixing and pouring job, with some simple masonry work. No experience other than the ability to wield a shovel is needed, but obviously handy if you're okay with concrete and shuttering type jobs.
Obviously I have no dates yet, but we're keen to tap up some interested folk ready for when we do. So, if like me you have not got much work on and/or fancy a couple of days out, then let me know.
Post here, but ideally even if you do, drop me an email to the DCA address here https://www.thedca.org.uk/home/contacts (https://www.thedca.org.uk/home/contacts) as it is easier to coordinate jobs using one digital medium instead of email/PM/Facebook etc...
Ta
Pete Knight
DCA Projects Officer
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: T pot 2 on July 11, 2020, 06:31:49 pm
Are any of these on slitherstones?
If so is it possible to lid them?
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 11, 2020, 06:46:25 pm
Yes, and yes, they are being lidded not sealed.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: alastairgott on July 11, 2020, 08:42:56 pm
Count me in, if it's a weekend job then i'll be there. though I'm not sure of the next two weekends.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: danthecavingman on July 11, 2020, 09:16:58 pm
Sorry, this may be slightly off topic, but did anyone ever get down the shaft at Two Rakes Head with the big boulder on top of it? I'm sure it was just near the back of Eldon Quarry. One could see partway down the shaft to a stone arched level leading off. We tried to shift the boulder sometime back in the late nineties with no joy other than a squashed finger and a trip to Calow.....🥺
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 20, 2020, 04:51:54 pm
Moving ahead with the prep work for the holes up here. Concrete formers for both sites made up and flat-packed ready to go to site with about 1 tonne of concrete mixing supplies.
No start date as yet as we're still one signature away from SSSI permission. Fingers crossed for the coming weekend.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: pwhole on July 20, 2020, 05:05:32 pm
Holey moley, that's amazing! ;)
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 20, 2020, 05:11:39 pm
Still waiting for a bunch of weldmesh to be delivered to insert into the concrete, and I need to figure out how to remove the wood after the concrete goes off! I think it'll end up being mostly entombed. The second former is not quite a posh, being only a square of 4 planks for the shaft with ginging to surface.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Jenny P on July 20, 2020, 09:50:59 pm
Holey moley, that's amazing! ;)

Pete only does "amazing" - anything less is just not good enough!
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: pwhole on July 21, 2020, 07:31:05 pm
Remember we used that fancy 'builder's greaseproof paper' up at Longcliffe - it didn't really stick to that? I think we may have oiled it first before we poured the concrete on. When we cast the shaft top cap we used oiled lino to make the inner circle, and it didn't stick to that either. I'll ask my friend who gave me the paper where he got it from - it may have been Jewson's.

Actually I think it was this, as it deffo had bitumen in the middle:

https://www.kitepackaging.co.uk/scp/papers/kraft-union-paper/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwqH_zP3e6gIVDevtCh23GwYsEAAYASAAEgLXxPD_BwE (https://www.kitepackaging.co.uk/scp/papers/kraft-union-paper/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwqH_zP3e6gIVDevtCh23GwYsEAAYASAAEgLXxPD_BwE)
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: The Old Ruminator on July 22, 2020, 05:30:30 pm
Oh. I had the other capping in mind before I read this. Best not mention my sort though.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 28, 2020, 11:21:15 am
Stand by for action! Permission imminent.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 28, 2020, 02:02:31 pm
Those who stated they were up for helping have been emailed. If you've not got it I missed you! Ping me a message and I'll forward it on.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Ed on July 28, 2020, 04:12:54 pm
sealing not banging them.... :-\
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 28, 2020, 04:20:53 pm
Lidding yes, not banging them!
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 29, 2020, 10:31:08 pm
I have sudden and urgent need of either two or four lengths of 2m or so scaffolding. Does anyone know where I could pinch / buy / borrow some from? It'll be entombed but DCA will replace if needed.
Also, I need it Friday morning!
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: pwhole on July 29, 2020, 11:07:32 pm
Alan Medhurst did have plenty? It's not far to his ;)
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: nickwilliams on July 29, 2020, 11:14:02 pm
In stock at Hucklow Digging Supplies, Pete.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on July 30, 2020, 06:16:13 am
Thanks Nick, I think Roy's already in touch with you for me.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 01, 2020, 05:15:43 pm
Thanks to everyone who helped in the run up, with equipment and supplies, and working on the ground this last 2 days. I'll need to get some lids on when the concrete has set fully, but the main job is now done.
Pete K
DCA Projects Officer
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: T pot 2 on August 01, 2020, 05:20:11 pm
Well done Pete and team.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Jenny P on August 01, 2020, 06:17:48 pm
Told you Pete and Co. only do amazing!
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Goydenman on August 01, 2020, 07:51:34 pm
great work well done
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: pwhole on August 02, 2020, 12:02:53 am
What a wonderful smooth finish - I was worried I'd left you in the lurch for today but it looks like there were plenty of staff in the end! Had Saturday's cast gone off by the time you got back? It hammered it down for ten mins here in the evening and I was worried it might be full of small craters by the morning!
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 02, 2020, 07:46:30 am
Friday's concrete had gone off fine with a rustic textured feel to it. No cratering from rain and we were able to walk on it yesterday. Fingers crossed the tarp survived on the second hole long enough to keep the rain off. I'll pop back in a few days with the steel lids and we'll see.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: pwhole on August 02, 2020, 11:50:32 am
In years to come future cavers will wonder how the hell we lifted the wall up and slid the slab underneath. Not telling.

My arms are covered in cuts from that damn fence though - and none of them from the barbed section! ;)
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 02, 2020, 12:50:04 pm
Do you recon just placing the 40kg steel plates over the holes is enough?
I worry if I drill them and place them on bolts in the concrete that the threads on the bolts will just get mashed up with the heavy lid banging against them each time it is lifted on and off. I'm thinking of drilling some holes to tie a couple of rope handles on and just plonking it on.
I suppose an alternative would be to get a bit of steel angle or square tube and bolt it into the concrete across the steel plate. Might stop it slowly walking off the shaft with cows standing on it. Hmmm.
Neither hole will see many visits so effort for lid construction is really not a priority.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: pwhole on August 02, 2020, 01:11:50 pm
I suspect that if the lid isn't fastened down, the cows will find a way to move it - they just can't help poking about. That shaft near Elton that swallowed a cow a few years back had a cover on, though it may have just been timber or wriggly tin - but it was all long gone (and the cow long dead) by the time we got there.

It would seem to make sense to put any bolts well away from the edges - maybe a couple of clamping bars are better? So the lid is unfastened, but registers in the hole so it won't slip sideways. If one end of each bar was hinged there would only be one bolt on each to fasten? If they were done with expansion sleeves the bolts could then be screwed downwards into the sleeve rather than them protruding upwards. Granted the holes would have to be kept very clean and cavers mustn't lose the bolts!
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 02, 2020, 01:30:51 pm
I can get 3m of 6mm thick, 80mm wide flat bar for £30 + postage.
https://www.themetalstore.co.uk/products/3-metre-lengths-6mm-flat-bar
Cut that in 2 and drill holes at either end to bolt down to concrete across the lids. That would clamp the sheet in place and stop cows disturbing it. I think I'll go down that route.
Anyone got anything similar kicking about before I order some?
Now I need to figure out handles. It's too heavy to lift without any. If I cut slots I recon someone is going to break their fingers on them. I could use some steel wire rope swaged through holes to create lifting/drag handles I suppose, or rope loops. Bolt through handles seem to be £20 a piece and not cost effective.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 02, 2020, 01:40:01 pm
Ah, I have found a length of galv angle (70mmx50mmx5mm) in the garden left over from Vixen shaft. I could cut that into 10cm chunks and bolt down to concrete on 2 sides of the lid to engage with a little cut-out to prevent movement in any direction. Bonus of that is that I have it here and it won't cost any more money to do. Does not solve handle problem though.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: pwhole on August 02, 2020, 01:59:11 pm
We're not wasting a gas strut on this ;)

If one side of the lid was hinged on captive bolts though, that would take a lot of the load, especially from beneath? The hinge would have to be pretty close to the hole though or the angle would remove the advantage. The issue then though, as we found elsewhere , is that you need something solid to stand on to push the damn thing up. Although I guess we do have 'solid' ginging in this one. Not worth pointing it all up though - there's far more important jobs to do. Is there a plan to put anchors in these shafts?
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Brains on August 02, 2020, 02:11:38 pm
Fix the lid in place with a scaff tube bolted down tight to "U" bolts either side in the concrete... Bolts with a bracket etc to act as a belay bar when open? Thinking like the big shaft at Snake Mine if you know that?
Attached (?) a picture by Renuka Russel showing the open lid with in situ gurning troglodyte. When closed the scaff tube holds the lid down firmly...
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 02, 2020, 03:22:43 pm
This is what I’ve managed so far with what I found around the shed.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 02, 2020, 03:24:31 pm
Is there a plan to put anchors in these shafts?
Maybe the deeper one but it was okay with a bar at the top.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: T pot 2 on August 02, 2020, 05:15:58 pm
Pete ask moose where the original titan shaft lid went to.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Pete K on August 02, 2020, 05:19:48 pm
I might have another shaft for that! I've got 2 lids with bat holes and handles cobbled together now. They are both lift on and off jobs but these sites are not going to get a lot of traffic, so simple is fine. I am now turning my attention to a plan for the Slitherstones shafts themselves. Time to get rid of those concrete sleepers.
Title: Re: Capping some holes near Eldon Quarry - DCA Project
Post by: Tseralo on August 03, 2020, 12:10:48 pm
I think if you can find a way to have a captive scaff bar as we did at longcliff I think that would be way better than the sliding ones. They either a too loose and risk being knocked down the shaft (see oxlow) or too tight especially if they get mud in them (see eyam dale house cave)