UK Caving

WHERE THE CAVES ARE - The Caving Regions => Peak District => Topic started by: Iain Barker on November 12, 2009, 08:54:56 pm

Title: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Iain Barker on November 12, 2009, 08:54:56 pm
 :ras:
Everybody remember this guy? He is leading trips of walkers down Giants and posting on the Sheffield forum as "Lohtse". Be ready!



<caps removed>
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cap'n Chris on November 12, 2009, 09:06:24 pm
Couldn't possibly forget. Clearly it is him, though.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Jam on November 12, 2009, 09:12:10 pm
What's the story ?

Rich
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Roger W on November 12, 2009, 09:16:36 pm
Have a look at http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,520.0.html (http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,520.0.html)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cave_Troll on November 12, 2009, 11:46:19 pm
whats thhe link on sheffield forum,?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cave_Troll on November 12, 2009, 11:49:45 pm
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=514160 (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=514160)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 13, 2009, 01:36:24 am
Yeah, a few people have PMd me regarding this madman since the original ukcaving shitstorm, one only yesterday.

He's already caused one callout in Giants but is again leading novices down there (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=515531)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Mark on November 13, 2009, 07:29:43 am
This link to his original website still works

http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: zippy on November 13, 2009, 08:34:48 am
scary  :o

And for the record, the "ZippyDeDoDah" that appears on the Sheffield forum is most definitely NOT me!!!

Z!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: freefall on November 13, 2009, 12:09:08 pm
He's not the only one to be wary about when doing Garlands.  I had a recent encounter with a CIC who initially seemed to know what he was doing, but then turned out to be a complete liability.

On the way down he criticized our rigging saying that one of our crabs was upside down (granted it was) and then proceeded to try to sell a CIC course to me.. So we set off on the round trip.

Getting back to Garlands we found that our only SRT kit had been taken.  This is strange.. but there are loads of people so we'll ask one of them about it.. We got the reply "oh yeah, we took it up. We'll send it back down when we're done." Erm.. That's quite strange. Bemused, we stood there for a further 15 minutes waiting for their group to finish faffing and get to the top.  There was A LOT of faff.  This ranged from tangling ropes to completely de-rigging our ladder.  Handy.

Eventually they decided to give us our ladder back, allowing us to get out of the cave, but in doing so rigged it in a different way to the way we had it.



What is the general consensus of this?  I don't like the idea that I can go on a trip and some apparent CIC can start messing around with my stuff.  I wouldn't touch someone else's rigging, and if I had to move their ladder to make it easier for me then I would put it back EXACTLY how they left it.

The CIC(s) in question also sent an email to the club criticizing our rigging etc, but not only that, he sent it to the health and safety guy at our student's union!  EVERYONE knows that university clubs are in jeopardy of being closed down, so why do that. That is completely below the belt.

More amusingly though, one of the members of our group was an IRATA level 3 with a LOT of experience caving, and I told the CIC this at the time.  Though apparently formal rope qualifications and experience are nothing compared to the knowledge and importance of the CIC.

I also found out in the car park later that they had de-rigged someone else's ladder too and not replaced it.  I find this behaviour completely inappropriate for a 'normal' caver, let alone a CIC.  It seems that every time I encounter them they make mistakes and are incredible slow, yes still have the audacity to criticize others.

Rant over.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: underground on November 13, 2009, 12:38:02 pm
Sounds like CIC is also an acronym for 'complete and utter ar5ehloe' or 'criminially idiotic c*nt' in this case.

Can you name and shame this fool?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Bushman on November 13, 2009, 12:44:57 pm
I bet he was Irish
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: freefall on November 13, 2009, 01:01:09 pm
I don't know names, but don't really want to start stirring anything now anyway as it as happened and nothing can be done about it.

I just think that if you want to criticize people then you tell them face to face and don't go straight to the top and risk club closure. Lame.

Anyway, i've heard about this Moorhouse chap though I don't know what he looks like.  Also, sounds like he's been watching way too much Thunderbirds..
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: underground on November 13, 2009, 01:10:08 pm
I don't know names, but don't really want to start stirring anything now anyway as it as happened and nothing can be done about it.
Maybe it has, but I'd rather it didn't happen to me if I met the same person underground.[/quote]
Quote
I just think that if you want to criticize people then you tell them face to face and don't go straight to the top and risk club closure. Lame.
Particularly when the guy is obviously not above criticism by a long shot. Someone with a piece of paper to bolster their over inflated ego by the sounds of it.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Les W on November 13, 2009, 02:06:35 pm
You could always report the CIC(s) to the BCA training officer.  ;)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cookie on November 13, 2009, 02:39:15 pm
The CIC (Cave Instructor Certificate) is a formal qualification. The scheme is run by the BCA and is the highest qualification they award. See http://www.british-caving.org.uk/?page=42  (http://www.british-caving.org.uk/?page=42)

As Les says, report it to the BCA Training Officer. See http://www.british-caving.org.uk/?page=44 (http://www.british-caving.org.uk/?page=44) for contact details.

I'm sure he will take this kind of behaviour seriously since it could bring the scheme into disrepute.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Brains on November 13, 2009, 02:40:41 pm
Name him so we can warned
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cave_Troll on November 13, 2009, 03:01:38 pm
most CICs are friendly chaps / chapesses and would offer advice like "I see you've done XXX, had you considered YYY" rather than criticise your rigging, try to sell you a course and then complain about you to the SU. maybe he's after the job of training you once he's made them think you're unsafe?


on the Subject of Mr Moorhouse, i see this character has
+ signed one of his posts "andrew"
+ taken a group of sheffield walkers down Giants
+ has an avatar photo in desert combats like an ex member of the SAS
+ when asked "whats in your rucksack" replied "full MRT kit"

- he did have to cancel an overnight walk he was organising due to "being on duty". We have no details yet of what that "duty" is. If it was either as mountain rescue or the counter terrorism branch of the SAS i'd say its more evidence that this is indeed Mr Moorhouse

so yes it does look like the meds might have worn off
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Bushman on November 13, 2009, 03:10:55 pm
(http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/INSR.JPG)
Wow, I'm convinced! :o
Amazing what you can do on a computer these days!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 13, 2009, 03:29:14 pm
If this guy is the problem that you say he is, has anyone joined the Sheffield Forum to express their concerns there?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cave_Troll on November 13, 2009, 04:08:43 pm
no but i might go on one of the walks he organises and ask sensible questions about subjects (if it is him) he is an expert on .
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: scoobz on November 13, 2009, 06:31:53 pm
Hi. I am one of the walk leaders for the Sheffield Forum Walking Group. Firstly, thank you to all of you for your concerns, and the information regarding Andrew. Some of it is very revealing to say the least! At this point though, I'd like to just stick to facts, as I know them.
Andrew joined our group about 10 weeks ago and been on a number of our Sunday walks, for recreational purposes. He has not led a walk at all in this time. He did arrange to lead an overnight walk, and sought my help with this. Originally I agreed, but after further thought, I decided that a November night time walk wasn't suitable and I backed out. Eventually Andrew cancelled the walk, probably because of falling interest, although he did say it was due to being called away somewhere.
Regarding caving, privately with people he has met through our Walking Group, he has arranged 2 caving trips. I went on the first one at Giants Hole,for which he provided the 9 people present boots, overalls and helmets with lights. He led the group well, and was very knowledgable. However, he did try and get all of us to descend a 20 foot drop, which I personally didn't think I was capable of getting out of, so I declined. One person who went down the drop in fact couldn't get out, and I had to help him pull her out. We trusted that he knew what he was doing, but clearly he didn't, because in my opinion, he should never have encouraged neither her or me to go down there.
He has now left our group this week, and I very much doubt if we will see him again!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Brains on November 13, 2009, 06:38:52 pm
Looking at the history, it seems you and your friend may have had a lucky escape!
If you would like to explore more of Giants or another cave I am sure there are many Sheffield based groups who would love to oblige. I am based in Stoke but will help if I can.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 14, 2009, 06:16:58 pm

Getting back to Garlands we found that our only SRT kit had been taken.  This is strange.. but there are loads of people so we'll ask one of them about it.. We got the reply "oh yeah, we took it up. We'll send it back down when we're done." Erm.. That's quite strange. Bemused, we stood there for a further 15 minutes waiting for their group to finish faffing and get to the top.  There was A LOT of faff.  This ranged from tangling ropes to completely de-rigging our ladder.  Handy.


if that happend to me mate, i'd be waiting in the car park and he'd wish he never crossed me...... that is a serious NO NO

As for this moorhouse chap, read all the guff, looked at his website...... this guy is as warm as toast...... wouldnt let his babysit the kids, he'd probably have them doing "handstands"....... sounds like he needs some sense beating into him..... and if he has got some..... beat that out and beat some more back in.........
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Amos666 on November 15, 2009, 06:14:07 pm
Can I just say that I am also a member of the Sheffield Forum & know all about the incident at Garlands Pot. Scoobz has told you about what happened down the cave, but, if it wasn't for him the lady in question would probably have been seriously injured, at best. It isn't just the fact that the group put their full trust in him assuring them that it was easy, they also put their trust in his equipment. The lady actually fell off the ladder at one point. Luckily, she had some very good quick thinking friends looking out for her & the safety rope saved her from falling, otherwise she would have had a serious accident.
Now, if this bloke has been doing this for so long, how safe is his equipment? What if his equipment had failed or he hadn't secured it properly in the first instance? It's a pity there isn't a way to take his old & bedraggled equipment off him to stop this happening again.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 15, 2009, 06:27:06 pm
so if it wasnt for him she would have never been nearly seriously injured, and never have fallen off the ladder? Sounds like he puts people into danger due to ignorance, stupidity and come on look on his website...... the guy is warm.....and he needs stopping........
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: SamT on November 15, 2009, 07:37:28 pm
so if it wasnt for him she would have never been nearly seriously injured, and never have fallen off the ladder?

Just playing devils advocate here, but how is her falling off the ladder his fault.
And just how did the
Quote
good quick thinking friends looking out for her
influence anything.

Seems to me like a normal Ladder and life line was set up, and did its job perfectly well. How many novice's fall off ladders - lots I imagine. All well and good if you've got a life line, which they had.

 :shrug:
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Amos666 on November 15, 2009, 08:13:45 pm
Just playing devils advocate here, but how is her falling off the ladder his fault.
And just how did the
Quote
good quick thinking friends looking out for her
influence anything.

Seems to me like a normal Ladder and life line was set up, and did its job perfectly well. How many novice's fall off ladders - lots I imagine. All well and good if you've got a life line, which they had.

 :shrug:

To answer your questions, the quick thinking friends helped because Moorhouse was doing nothing to try to help when she was in trouble apart from saying encouraging things. It was Scoobz who's never been in a cave before, that took control, took charge of the rope to help her & stopped her from falling to the bottom.

The 2nd statement - yes she was lucky that he had set up a normal lifeline, but due to his lack of knowledge, if he had of made a mistake with setting this up, it would not have saved her. Also, his equipment was obviously very old & shabby. His caving suits & wellies were covered in duct tape in an attempt to cover the many rips & holes in them. The point is, if the rope had been in the same shabby condition, the outcome may not have been so favourable. The party who went down the cave with him were totally unaware of the potential dangers thery were putting themselves into. They trusted him 100% because they thought he was a very experienced instructor ('One of the top 50 in the country' - his words). They assumed he knew exactly what he was doing, what to do in an emergency & that his equipment was reliable.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 15, 2009, 08:21:07 pm
What a dong..............

i wont take friends vertical caving unless they have done an srt course......

but if you were told false information...... more people need to know about this guy before he puts someones life in serious danger
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: george on November 15, 2009, 08:52:07 pm
Surely someone on here must have his number or address. If we could contact him, we could get him on here to defend himself, otherwise this is all just heresay. This could all be made up with a couple of people claiming to know him for shits and giggles. Come Mr Moorhouse, lets hear from you! :-\
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Amos666 on November 15, 2009, 09:43:55 pm
Surely someone on here must have his number or address. If we could contact him, we could get him on here to defend himself, otherwise this is all just heresay. This could all be made up with a couple of people claiming to know him for shits and giggles. Come Mr Moorhouse, lets hear from you! :-\

Believe me, when I first read all the threads from 2003, I thought exactly the same as you. Anyone can say anything about anyone on a forum & how do we know what is & isn't true & it very soon becomes a witch hunt.

I had originally asked that details about Moorhouse were not put on a public forum for this very reason, but this thread had already been started prior to this request.

But since then, after giving it much thought, if I read in the papers months from now someone had died due to his actions, I would never forgive myself for keeping it under wraps. This man is a very likeable person, probably very lonely & just desparate to make friends by pretending to be someone is so obviously isn't, & I don't believe his actions are any way malicious. But, by the very fact innocent people are putting 100% trust in his so-called magnificent expertise, this makes him dangerous.

If you do not believe in my credibility, please contact the starter of this thread, who knows who I am & I would be more than willing to discuss this further with anyone who wishes to hear the facts first-hand.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 15, 2009, 09:58:50 pm
Mr Moorhouse, i think i met you a while ago in said pot. All i can say is if you carry on with your little act you will almost definately end up with a manslaughter charge for some poor b.....d you fooled and killed with amazing knowledge of caving and other associated sports. As for your knowledge of certain armed forces i may be able to help. Do us a favour and f..k off, cause if you get in our way we will let you know.

In a polite way please help us to make derbyshire a safer place to cave and bog off!!!!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: JB on November 15, 2009, 10:12:43 pm
Of course Moorhouse is a f*ckmook; I've seen him in action at a crag and it wasn't clever! However the people who are going out with him have to take some responsibility for the situation that they're finding themselves in. I wouldn't go paragliding <or other potentially dangerous activity> with a bloke who I 'met' on the internet without doing a bit of my own research/questioning/thinking first.

I'm very glad that nobody was hurt on your Shamblers trips :)

Jules.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 15, 2009, 10:14:03 pm
giants needs a "no moorhouse" sign.........
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: El Agreb on November 15, 2009, 10:25:28 pm
However the people who are going out with him have to take some responsibility for the situation that they're finding themselves in.
Well put Jules

And he could at least spell his adopted name correctly seeing as it may be one of the 8 he has climbed or wants to!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 15, 2009, 10:35:49 pm
Good one Jules, Has he got a Glossy Leaflet i can hand out to people i dont like.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: SamT on November 15, 2009, 10:41:13 pm
[To answer your questions.....[snip]

Cool, cool.  8)

As you say, the guy does have 'issues' and the more folks that are aware of him the better IMHO though I don't really like the tone of some folks emails, I certainly don't advocate beatings.  :-\

Professional care and the right meds would go a long way.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 15, 2009, 10:47:21 pm
who mentioned beatings!!!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Jam on November 15, 2009, 11:06:58 pm
Well, did I do the right thing in asking "What's the story"?

I guess if it saves folk from potential danger then the answer is yes...
Looked at his website and one thing is for certain, he's more than heavily dyslexic (I know, I am mildly) or his grey matter is wired incorrectly.

Thanks for the heads up!!

Rich
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 15, 2009, 11:12:33 pm
taken from his website..... a club that he runs.......

http://web.archive.org/web/20030225205805/members.tripod.com/smwc2001/index.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20030225205805/members.tripod.com/smwc2001/index.html)

MSpaint art FTMFW!!111!!!!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 15, 2009, 11:15:19 pm
oh it gets better :D like i said...... wouldnt let him babysit the kids lol :p

from his website

"The next 2 pictures our of the daughters of 2 of the people I climb with. They are both slightly mad and terrorist ANYONE who should cross their paths. So beware if you see them then you best go another way. But if you should go to near them offer chocolate(as I do) as this seems to quell the beast inside them :) Holly is the one to the right and Sarah to the Left..."
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 15, 2009, 11:20:03 pm
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=314505 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=314505)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 16, 2009, 09:35:16 am
However the people who are going out with him have to take some responsibility for the situation that they're finding themselves in. I wouldn't go paragliding <or other potentially dangerous activity> with a bloke who I 'met' on the internet without doing a bit of my own research/questioning/thinking first.
It's very easy for a friendly, convincing bullshitter to pull the wool over the eyes of a total novice, which is why he continues to prey on such people. I suspect that he talks a good enough line that people feel they don't need to do any further research. You can't blame people for being trusting, it's not really their fault they are being lied to. I'm sure many of us will have been caving/climbing/etc with people who we've just met and accepted on face value rather than doing internet research on!

I think that any adverse publicity that this guy gets is a good thing as it will hopefully be seen and acted on. He needs to keep getting shut down before there is the potential for an accident.

I've actually been contacted by his (now ex, after she found out the truth) fiancee who only suspected quite late on that he wasn't what he seemed.

From reading the description of the last Giants incident it almost seems to me he wants there to be an accident so that he can then step in using his "elite rescuer" persona.

This sort of Delusion of Grandeur can be a symptom of Schizophrenia so perhaps the guy does need some sort of prefossional help?

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 16, 2009, 09:42:08 am
OMG, you have just reminded me of an incident at a place I used to work many years back. I came in nice and early as normal to find two floors of the office completely gutted by fire. Eventually it transpired that the security officer on duty had started a fire deliberately with the intention of "discovering" it and putting it out and being a hero. His problem was he left it too late, and had to call out the fire brigade instead. This was his second such offence; the first time at another site he had got away with it and been called a hero. I spent a year working in a portakabin as a result.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 16, 2009, 11:02:46 am
wasn't called andrew moorhouse was he :p
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: adrenalin on November 16, 2009, 05:54:08 pm
Hi Guys

The way I see it so far, he has not broke any laws, which is why on doing a search on him lead us to this forum and events that has happened in the past.

The Sheffield Shamblers Walking group was originally set up a couple of years ago as a social walking group, mainly for people who like to walk as a group at a Leisurely Place, we do have a couple of members who seem pretty experienced and done some challenging walks in the past other than with the group, however what we have here is someone with a big personality (likeable guy) who joined about 10 weeks ago.

Im sure you can picture the scene, all having a conversation welcoming him to the group etc, over the few weeks, he say's he is part of Mountain Rescue on a voluntary basis spending nights out in the peak district, claiming that his day job is teaching groups like ourselves in map reading, health & Safety also in teaching in other area's such as Kayacking, Caving, Horse Riding etc, the main banter of the group being the size of his Rucksack which looks the part with walking sticks attached, ropes etc (for some reason small fluffy toys too) far too extreme for what we do where we take a normal day pack containing waterproofs, drink food etc, our walk co-ordinators cary first aid kits.

So with the above he is building trust amongst naive people, so when he then starts a thread regarding Night Walk or as has happened Caving, some I assume will have attended with the false security that they are in the safest possible hands but knowing the facts that his claim to be in Mountain Rescue being false then im sure those people would not attend.

If he just had the sense to say "hello my name is Andrew I'm a experienced Walker also in Caving does anyone want to join me, then fine, at least you know where you are, then make your own decission whether to participate.

The more I have thought about what ive read in the other threads on here, I do feel and I hope I'm wrong, that he would love to create a situation where he comes out the hero.

I have no experience in Caving at all, and only little walking experience with the group I walk with, I do feel he does have plenty of experience but he needs to be stopped in giving the false pretence which potencially could lead to a dissaster.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: george on November 16, 2009, 10:53:18 pm
I read on his website about his rucksac - 8 stone! He seems quite proud of the fact. If I went out with an 8 stone rucksac I would never live it down. He must be all man!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: adrenalin on November 16, 2009, 11:06:21 pm
Is this the same fellahttp://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065106659921986 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065106659921986)
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065404523847394 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065404523847394)
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399066001977373938 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399066001977373938)

his famous rucksack, whats the cuddly toys for?
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/RodMoorOct2009#5394264106154881906 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/RodMoorOct2009#5394264106154881906)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: george on November 16, 2009, 11:13:18 pm
That rucksac is f*****g brilliant! 2 ropes (on the outside?!), 2 lamps on his helmet. Has he got 2 first aid kits? He's going to bloody well need them with a pack that size slowing him down!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: adrenalin on November 16, 2009, 11:33:48 pm
some more of him here http://www.facebook.com/#/photo.php?pid=2408390&id=761724460&fbid=140051989460 (http://www.facebook.com/#/photo.php?pid=2408390&id=761724460&fbid=140051989460)
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/saulmcintyre/Bleaklow#5396942920882918450 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/saulmcintyre/Bleaklow#5396942920882918450)


Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Amos666 on November 16, 2009, 11:59:13 pm
That rucksac is f*****g brilliant! 2 ropes (on the outside?!), 2 lamps on his helmet. Has he got 2 first aid kits? He's going to bloody well need them with a pack that size slowing him down!

Nope, he doesn't have 2 first aid kits, he has 4!! (One SUPPOSEDLY a full paramaedic first aid kit - for when he is called out on one of his "rescue missions" ;D)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: adrenalin on November 17, 2009, 03:37:01 am
He's not been on for sometime but he is a member here, and in his 3 posts he is offering help :)
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=133 (http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=133)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: ttxela on November 17, 2009, 08:44:26 pm
Worrying stuff indeed, it shouldn't put anyone off though, not much more than a novice myself I've been on trips with quite a few people I've been in contact with only through the internet prior to the trip and fortunately I've always had fantastic trips with people I've had alot of confidence in.  :hug:  :thumbsup:

Comparing my experiences with the account related here though there are plenty of warnings that all was not well. I'll detail them below as a guide to what to look for in future.

1. This chap seems to have been able to quickly organise a trip within a couple of weeks of joining a group - proper caving trips take months of planning with many emails/forum posts/pub discussions, however no firm decisions should be made beyond which region the trip will take place in until the night before.

2. Everyone seems to have met at the right cave at the right time - ideally at least one person should be in the wrong place on the wrong day, preferably the leader of the trip. At the very least the majority of participants should still be in their sleeping bags.

3. It appears he not only brought himself a matching pair of wellies but everyone else as well! - At the very least the leader should have forgotten his wellies or bought his wifes, several sizes too small. A really good sign is if he has brought one of his and one of his wifes (both the same foot).

4. The oversuits lent out were worn out and taped up - in itself very promising however there is no mention of the tape falling off at the furthest point from the entance and the suits disintegrating.

5. Again no mention of lights without batteries or brought along uncharged - what an oversight.

Many thanks to all those who've taken me on trips  :beer2:, joking apart thank goodness I've never been with this lad.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Dan on November 17, 2009, 09:44:39 pm
I'd like to meet him!!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Dan on November 17, 2009, 10:00:08 pm
Can't we invite to him Eldon Stomp? Stomp could take on a new meaning!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 17, 2009, 10:05:25 pm
OLD SCHOOL!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: underground on November 17, 2009, 11:17:29 pm
Is this the same fellahttp://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065106659921986 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065106659921986)
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065404523847394 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399065404523847394)
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399066001977373938 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/Caving#5399066001977373938)

his famous rucksack, whats the cuddly toys for?
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/RodMoorOct2009#5394264106154881906 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/zebedee.zoe/RodMoorOct2009#5394264106154881906)

Yep, that's the fella...

whatever his problem, be it schizophrenia or just being a bit desperate, he needs exposing as a fraud and people need to be aware of him and what he looks like before something really bad actually happens.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: owd git on November 18, 2009, 12:55:24 am
If i see him sniffing around  our village again, (that was Wapping! with graffiti .)
I'll be sure to make it public.
Maybe he'd like some rope practice on High Tor. ( in the best possible taste!) :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
O. G.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on November 18, 2009, 01:57:30 pm
This man, although an undoubted fantasist, surely does not deserve some of the increasingly venomous responses seen on this forum. Its worrying to see threats of physical harm ['stomping' 'rope practice' 'beat some sense' etc] creeping through. Is this how we want non-cavers who have seen these posts to see us? I'm sure that these comments were made in half jest but the implication is there. I totally agree that we need to be aware of his possible presence, under or overground, but lets make our responses more constructive and less inclined to GBH. Having said all this, I'm amazed he is not aware of all the fuss he has caused. If I was he, I would arrange for a rapid posting to another disaster area!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: biffa on November 18, 2009, 02:00:01 pm
Just be aware that he has become violent before when confronted with our version of events/evaluation of his skills.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 18, 2009, 04:28:19 pm
s'allright im packin yo!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: ian.p on November 18, 2009, 04:52:55 pm
Quote
s'allright im packin yo!
i doubt that very much...
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Coxie on November 18, 2009, 04:56:28 pm
I'm pretty sure I crossed paths with the infamous Mr Moorhouse when I lived and worked in the Peak about 8 years ago at Burbage and my climbing partner offered some friendly advice about an appalinlgy rigged route which was not well recieved at all.

It seems apparent that at some stage he's going to cause an accident unless enough people are informed but I agree with David in that he probably doesn't deserve the verbal abuse he's currently getting on the forum.

He should really be given the chance to defend himself... Having read the above comments on this thread i doubt he'll come forward to do so... I wouldn't. 
 
If he can't be stopped should he not be trained so that he has the skills to keep himself safe.


Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cave_Troll on November 18, 2009, 04:57:55 pm
Its longer and more complicated that you can imagine.
If you know me, i can tell you more details in the pub, but i think best not here :-)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cap'n Chris on November 18, 2009, 05:02:05 pm
whatever his problem... ...he needs exposing as a fraud and people need to be aware of him and what he looks like before something really bad actually happens.

The interwebnet is your friend.

Anyone with suspicions about Andrew Moorhouse will soon be able to have them confirmed (or otherwise), viz:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Andrew+Moorhouse (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Andrew+Moorhouse)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 18, 2009, 05:43:51 pm
Just be aware that he has become violent before when confronted with our version of events/evaluation of his skills.
He didn't want to hurt you, he was just trying to rescue you. The two are easily confused.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 18, 2009, 06:13:05 pm
Quote
s'allright im packin yo!
i doubt that very much...

sense of humor = 0

looooooooooool
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 18, 2009, 09:47:49 pm
This man, although an undoubted fantasist, surely does not deserve some of the increasingly venomous responses seen on this forum. Its worrying to see threats of physical harm ['stomping' 'rope practice' 'beat some sense' etc] creeping through. Is this how we want non-cavers who have seen these posts to see us? I'm sure that these comments were made in half jest but the implication is there. I totally agree that we need to be aware of his possible presence, under or overground, but lets make our responses more constructive and less inclined to GBH. Having said all this, I'm amazed he is not aware of all the fuss he has caused. If I was he, I would arrange for a rapid posting to another disaster area!

Fair comment but i have friends that have put years of their lives and money into exploration in certain areas of the peak which due to wasters are already getting a little sensitive, one death or serious accident could affect access to these areas.

this guy deserves no sensitivity or politeness he his a wanker and needs to know he is not welcome in Derbyshire or any other areas.

Sticking up for the Guy will give him a line which he is clearly trying to attract attention for.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: george on November 18, 2009, 09:51:59 pm
Hey - don't tell him that he's not welcome in Derbyshire; he might come to Yorkshire!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 18, 2009, 09:59:18 pm
ABSOLUTELY no worries there he cant rig and get to the bottom of garlands, think he might struggle up your spot. New funny poster of him and the bear on its way to the New Inn for you browse over for future caving trips.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Roger W on November 18, 2009, 10:24:06 pm
No, that ain't funny.

If he half-kills people trying to take them down Garlands, just think what might happen if he finds some folk who want him to take them down GG main shaft...    :o
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 19, 2009, 12:57:37 am
He has plenty of rope, could definately be a possibility :o
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: underground on November 19, 2009, 01:28:09 am
whatever his problem... ...he needs exposing as a fraud and people need to be aware of him and what he looks like before something really bad actually happens.

The interwebnet is your friend.

Anyone with suspicions about Andrew Moorhouse will soon be able to have them confirmed (or otherwise), viz:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Andrew+Moorhouse (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Andrew+Moorhouse)

Chris, the links from picasa show fairly well, what he looks like....
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: adrenalin on November 19, 2009, 01:48:09 am
As i put in my earlier post's, he has not broke the law, and basically all he has done with us is pull the wool over our eyes, but a basic search led us to here.

I don't condone violence to him, what he is showing is I suppose all of us have done at some point in bull shitting a story or whatever, however in this case, he can potentially put someone at risk.

so it seems, we should pass info on to other groups that we come accross to be aware of situations like this.

One thing that springs to mind to me, is that any group inviting people along to join a social group whether it be us as a social walking group or you guys caving, is to insist that any person posting that they wanna join or participate in a event, is that they bring along some form of identification as to who they are, live etc so that checks can be made............. example this guy could give any false info, luckily he was not that bright to do this, hence such as me posting here.

To be fair to the guy, nice fella, but a big bullshitta which we can all laugh at, but in a enviorement that can cause serious injury to un suspecting people, bottom line don't take anyone at face value! check em out, and think before doing anything you not completely comfortable with.

ps you have a great forum here.... well done!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: biffa on November 19, 2009, 10:35:18 am
I don't condone violence to him, what he is showing is I suppose all of us have done at some point in bull shitting a story or whatever, however in this case, he can potentially put someone at risk.

http://www.derbyshirecro.org.uk/call_outs.html (http://www.derbyshirecro.org.uk/call_outs.html)
301
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Bushman on November 19, 2009, 11:34:54 am
Ok, he's a knob, we all get it.
Is it about time this thread was locked and chucked in the Shit Heap?
Just a thought.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 19, 2009, 11:40:32 am

No it's not - this bloke needs maximum publicity
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 19, 2009, 01:05:36 pm
Agree with Bushman, I feel he may be thriving over all this good public attention. Lets all just piss him off and get distributing posters instead, I have a good banner for Buxton market square, and a poster for every caving premises worldwide :lol:
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 19, 2009, 01:15:54 pm

He wants admiration, not everyone calling him a dickhead, so I can't see how he'd be thriving over this...

Last time he was "exposed" he took his website down so it must have some effect.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Chocolate fireguard on November 19, 2009, 01:44:35 pm
If what I have read is true this man should be kept away from beginners and contributors to the thread could argue that they are performing a public service. I just wish some of them were not so obviously enjoying themselves: for the 2nd time this year on this part of the forum. I`m starting to feel sorry for Mr Moorhouse. It`s a bit like watching a Question Time audience and panel gang up on Nick Griffin. Or a foxhunt.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 19, 2009, 01:55:16 pm
I agree with Mr Fireguard. If you want to make personal attacks, whether or not they are deserved, have the courage to do so openly, and not behind a pseudonym (although quite a few of pseudonymically labelled posters are open about who they are). It is the danger of a bulletin board that some will treat it like a blank wall waiting for nasty graffiti to be added.

"xxxx is a slag" for example.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 19, 2009, 02:15:39 pm
If you want to make personal attacks, whether or not they are deserved, have the courage to do so openly, and not behind a pseudonym
Not that old chestnut again - it doesn't make any difference - anyone can create a real looking username.

...and I notice that Mr Moorhouse didn't use his real name when registering here either...
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 19, 2009, 02:23:36 pm
Hi Bubba - I have no problem with people using pseudonyms - but just as those who use their real names have to be careful what they write, so should those who don't, but for different reasons. That's all I'm saying. And you are quite right. I am not the real PB - he's this really great guy who knows a lot of cool stuff about the Surrey Mines. I've just borrowed his name.  8)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 19, 2009, 08:44:44 pm
I have absolutely no problem in stressing my feelings to this guys face, i do not hide my email details there open for everyone to see. If he wants to meet great :chair:it will not change my opinion.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: DARBY on November 19, 2009, 08:51:54 pm
MR MOORHOUSE!!!! Grow a pair of bollocks and get on this site and try and defend yourself, before the subject starts to compare to a conversation with my tax man.

Hey Guys if he doesnt answer put the subject on the shit heap in capitals.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: graham on November 19, 2009, 09:53:11 pm
If what I have read is true this man should be kept away from beginners and contributors to the thread could argue that they are performing a public service. I just wish some of them were not so obviously enjoying themselves: for the 2nd time this year on this part of the forum. I`m starting to feel sorry for Mr Moorhouse. It`s a bit like watching a Question Time audience and panel gang up on Nick Griffin. Or a foxhunt.

Hunting Nick Griffin with hounds, yes, I can see the fun in that.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: RobinGriffiths on November 19, 2009, 11:53:08 pm
Attacking someone on a public forum with this degree of vitriol isn't really on. Now, speculating on the wellness or not of his mental health openly is in all probability not wise either. Presumably this gentleman has his contact details reasonably easily available. If anyone has issues, then it might be better to contact him and take it from there.

Robin
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 20, 2009, 12:27:18 am
thats like saying your not allowed to swim in a swimming pool?

this IS the INTERNET right?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: adrenalin on November 20, 2009, 12:28:05 am
To bin this thread is wrong, because should any future person wanna search him then they would not find this, the fact this awareness is here is what led us to here and consiquently (i know i spelt that wrong) this thread is here now by one of your members.

If you look back through my posts on this thread I pointed out he is a member on here, and his email is the same one he is currently using.

However it seems unlikely he will respond, probably because in denial, again I still stand by the fact he come accross as a nice chap with good intentions, but putting accross false security to novices in all sectors of outdor persuits.

I shall leave it to you guys to email via pm to contact him for a response.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on November 20, 2009, 08:13:04 am
Take a look at the front page of the Times. Spot the non MRC triangular logo on the back of the 'rescuer' in Keswick. Looks familiar, doesn't it? There again I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Coxie on November 20, 2009, 08:23:28 am

Wow... The resemblance is uncanny... Good spot  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: zippy on November 20, 2009, 08:55:35 am
Ok, he's a knob, we all get it.
Is it about time this thread was locked and chucked in the Shit Heap?
Just a thought.

I agree with Bushman.  Many people have a dim opinion of forums because of excessive rants - it doesn't do anyone any good.  Many years back I remember well the total breakdown of the alt.caving newsgroup because of non-stop ranting.

A valid point has been made, and a fair warning to the caving community of a potential "hazzard".  The point has been made - let it lie.

Z.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: kay on November 20, 2009, 11:56:50 am
thats like saying your not allowed to swim in a swimming pool?

this IS the INTERNET right?

This is the internet. In August this year,  Keeley Houghton was jailed for internet bullying
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 20, 2009, 12:01:04 pm
no wai! (refrains from posting owls)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Cave_Troll on November 20, 2009, 12:50:07 pm
Take a look at the front page of the Times. Spot the non MRC triangular logo on the back of the 'rescuer' in Keswick. Looks familiar, doesn't it? There again I could be wrong.

This is a member of Keswick MRT wearing a Paln bouancey aid .
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on November 20, 2009, 01:58:13 pm
Does the fact that 'Keswick MRT' handwritten written in indelible pen make him a genuine team member? Like I said, looks familiar.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 20, 2009, 02:28:28 pm
This is the internet. In August this year,  Keeley Houghton was jailed for internet bullying
Nobody is bullying anyone (or indeed making death threats which is what Houghton was jailed for).

Exposing a dangerous bullshitter as a dangerous bullshitter isn't bullying, it's just stating facts to warn those who may not realise the extent of his lies until they are caught in a dangerous situation. I'm amazed anyone has any sympathy for this bloke tbh.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: kay on November 20, 2009, 05:04:40 pm
I don't have any sympathy for the guy. I was merely taking issue with Turner's suggestion that, because this is the internet, anything is allowed.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 20, 2009, 06:06:58 pm

Fair enough Kay, I know that you mean.

I think most of the threats of stomping/general violence have been in jest in this topic but it is worth saying that on this forum, the responsibility for your posts relies with you...so it's probably not a great idea to dish out threats as they will be archived by the search-engines for evermore.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 20, 2009, 06:23:23 pm
going to have to pull up the rules of the internet here.......

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/30/1194679739296.jpg (http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/30/1194679739296.jpg)

i think rule 20 applies kay......
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: kay on November 20, 2009, 08:03:01 pm
going to have to pull up the rules of the internet here.......

i think rule 20 applies kay......

You mean to your original? Fair enough. I've never been good at humour  ;)

Quote from: Bubba
Fair enough Kay, I know that you mean.

Thanks Bubba
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: george on November 20, 2009, 10:10:41 pm
Sorry to keep this going but my sheffield-residing brother sent me this. Is it a joke? If not it could be a good deal - a ladder with history!

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/46642/cat/7 (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/46642/cat/7)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: teabag on November 20, 2009, 10:47:57 pm
I think this is the most worrying:
http://www.recoveryourlife.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=102802 (http://www.recoveryourlife.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=102802)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Servo on November 20, 2009, 10:57:03 pm
Turns out he likes to Twitter too: -

https://twitter.com/lohtse

Think my favourites are:
In need of a walking, caving, climbing partner.....
4:11 AM Aug 2nd from Echofon

and
What a great Caving trip. down there SOLO. As always P8 (in Peak district) provides a fine sporty trip. Wonderfully wet.
8:01 AM Aug 1st from TweetDeck
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Servo on November 20, 2009, 11:05:01 pm
I think this is the most worrying:
http://www.recoveryourlife.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=102802 (http://www.recoveryourlife.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=102802)
Dear sweet jesus, he is a complete loon!!!!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: george on November 20, 2009, 11:18:33 pm
So the suicide stuff was last posted in June, so he obviously didn't do it as he put his ladder up for sale 2 days ago. Is he now a happier man? Is he content with life?
Has he got a new job (assuming the rescue stuff is just fantasy) - someone must work with him or for him or something, maybe things have picked up a little for Andrew.
How about his plans to finish off the 10 highest mountains in the world - how's that coming along?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 20, 2009, 11:20:08 pm
I hope none of us ever have the misfortune to feel like that. I don't think people write stuff like that as a joke. On the home page of that online self-help community is the following:

"We strongly believe in an open and non-judgemental atmosphere which we feel has helped so many people already."

I wonder how some of the posts on here would go down if transposed to that site.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: teabag on November 20, 2009, 11:28:24 pm
"In 1998 during a rescue she died. Myself, a colleague and Louise fell over 400ms, They died I didn't . Louise wasn't a member of my team but often turned out with us if she was with me. As the team leader I allowed her to help."
Is it just me or does this scare anyone else?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Servo on November 20, 2009, 11:53:49 pm
"In 1998 during a rescue she died. Myself, a colleague and Louise fell over 400ms, They died I didn't . Louise wasn't a member of my team but often turned out with us if she was with me. As the team leader I allowed her to help."
Is it just me or does this scare anyone else?
A 400m fall is quite impressive. The average person will reach Terminal Velocity after about 3 seconds of free fall, at a speed of around 120 - 140mph and in a distance of only around 35m. Effectively you may as well have fallen from 10,000m as you would have still hit the ground the same!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: scoobz on November 21, 2009, 08:49:08 am
I have been friends with Andrew for the past 4 months, and contrary to what people are saying in here, he is not "a complete loon". I can't believe what some people who have probably never met him are coming out with in here. He has obviously got problems, and coming in here to defend himself won't happen as most of the posters will know. So how about sticking to facts, and not resorting to insults and insinuations, or is this the level that this Forum normally lowers itself to?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 21, 2009, 10:36:02 am
Hi Scoobz - by and large we are pretty much a level-headed online community. But, much as in any online forum, when the mob mentality kicks in, the inevitable result is some degree of character assassination from the minority. So yes, this Forum does descend to the level you describe, which is sad, but we are pretty well moderated, in fairness to the mods.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Coxie on November 21, 2009, 12:56:14 pm

Setting up his rescue team is clearly a coping strategy for him to deal with his loss, whether it's realistic or not doesn't make any difference, he's dealing with it as best he can.

It would make sense that this recent incident was to stage a successful rescue, as was suggested earlier. Who knows how many times he has succeeded in doing this in order to deal with his issues.

There must be something we can do to get this guy some help.  He is a real risk to himself and unsuspecting others.

And yes he deserves some sympathy... It could happen to anyone of us and who's telling how we would deal with it.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Brains on November 21, 2009, 01:43:15 pm
"In 1998 during a rescue she died. Myself, a colleague and Louise fell over 400ms, They died I didn't . Louise wasn't a member of my team but often turned out with us if she was with me. As the team leader I allowed her to help."
Is it just me or does this scare anyone else?
A 400m fall is quite impressive. The average person will reach Terminal Velocity after about 3 seconds of free fall, at a speed of around 120 - 140mph and in a distance of only around 35m. Effectively you may as well have fallen from 10,000m as you would have still hit the ground the same!
I assumed this to mean either 400m of altitude, or perhaps 400m across the ground but not as freefall, perhaps down steep ground / snow-ice. To find a 400m freefall is quite an impressive undertaking but not at all impossible.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on November 21, 2009, 05:28:48 pm
OK, enough is enough.  I'm talking about Turner's comments urging Mr Moorhouse to jump off Monsel (sic) viaduct.  Has anyone here actually worked in mental health? I spent 5 years working with MH crisis teams dealing with people like Mr Moorhouse on a daily basis. ANY suicide threat, no matter how manipulative, was taken very seriously as an indicator of ill health. I have been to more than one inquest where 'nobody thought he would actually DO it'. Making jokes and ridiculing thoughts and feelings can end in tragedy.  Shame on you for wishing death on a person you have probably never met and shame on this forum for allowing it to progress to this level.

While I'm at it, has anyone read the legal definition of slander/defamation? :read: It seems as if Mr Moorhouse has ample grounds for taking legal action if he wanted to.  Don't think the internet is immune from this.  I'm sure that administrators and owners of forums could face ruin if a case was proved.  It would be a shame to see this forum closed due to hysterical, abusive, threatening and non-regulated comments.  By the way, slander can be proved even when the facts may be correct. 

This current line of abuse and crude analysis of his mental health does us no favours and is already attracting attention from external forums and individuals.  Stop it now please.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 21, 2009, 05:41:07 pm
Setting up his rescue team is clearly a coping strategy for him to deal with his loss
What loss? Did any of that really happen? It sounds made up to me tbh.

I have been friends with Andrew for the past 4 months, and contrary to what people are saying in here, he is not "a complete loon". I can't believe what some people who have probably never met him are coming out with in here.
So perhaps you can put the record straight then? What are his motives for preying on beginners and gaining their trust by giving them a misleading picture of his expertise, and inventing bogus credentials?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 21, 2009, 05:44:21 pm
OK, enough is enough.  I'm talking about Turner's comments urging Mr Moorhouse to jump off Monsel (sic) viaduct.

Hardly the case, get with it.....

my point was if he seriously wanted to do it he'd have done it.

All you have done is completely twisted the context of what i said....
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: martinr on November 21, 2009, 05:52:09 pm

While I'm at it, has anyone read the legal definition of slander/defamation? :read: It seems as if Mr Moorhouse has ample grounds for taking legal action if he wanted to.  Don't think the internet is immune from this. 


See:
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article3677002.ece (http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article3677002.ece)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on November 21, 2009, 05:59:31 pm
Thank you Martin :thumbsup: Of course I mean't libel and not slander. Read and heed everyone.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 21, 2009, 06:07:46 pm
for casting an opinion? well.......

Still wouldnt trust him to take the dog for a walk.....
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 21, 2009, 06:11:32 pm
OK, enough is enough.  I'm talking about Turner's comments urging Mr Moorhouse to jump off Monsel (sic) viaduct.
That post has been deleted - I agree, it was offensive. However, I personally don't believe what was posted on that support forum anyway - imo he's invented a tragic accident scenario in order to get sympathy, but hey, I guess it could all be true.

It seems as if Mr Moorhouse has ample grounds for taking legal action if he wanted to.  Don't think the internet is immune from this.  I'm sure that administrators and owners of forums could face ruin if a case was proved.  It would be a shame to see this forum closed due to hysterical, abusive, threatening and non-regulated comments.
Legal action against who exactly? And on what grounds exactly? He has no grounds for taking legal action against ukcaving imo - also read the registration agreement that everyone signed up to.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: whitelackington on November 21, 2009, 06:17:08 pm
If what I have read is true this man should be kept away from beginners and contributors to the thread could argue that they are performing a public service. I just wish some of them were not so obviously enjoying themselves: for the 2nd time this year on this part of the forum. I`m starting to feel sorry for Mr Moorhouse. It`s a bit like watching a Question Time audience and panel gang up on Nick Griffin. Or a foxhunt.

Hunting Nick Griffin with hounds, yes, I can see the fun in that.  :thumbsup:
Shame on you Graham  ::)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on November 21, 2009, 06:28:18 pm
Thanks bubba. I'm simply urging people to be be less vitriolic and abusive about this chap.  Martinr's link clearly shows we are to some risk.  I'm also concerned we are losing our sense of decency and fair play about our fellow human beings :halo: Regards, David
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Brains on November 21, 2009, 07:08:06 pm
He has a right of reply, if he will not or can not make use of it perhaps those that know him could put his version of events and reasoning forward for balance. Is there any corroborative evidence for his claimed achievements or membership of particular groups? Can he substantiate his skills base he has claimed to have?
If as seems likely none of this can be shown, and given the indications of MH issues, what help could those that know him, or the rest of us, provide? Is there anything we can do to help him and prevent reoccurance of third parties being put at risk?
 :doubt: :blink:
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Coxie on November 21, 2009, 07:20:03 pm
Setting up his rescue team is clearly a coping strategy for him to deal with his loss
What loss? Did any of that really happen? It sounds made up to me tbh.

I really don't think you can discredit his post on that forum, it should be taken 100% seriously.  If he has sought help form the mental health sector in the past they probably aren't aware that he's endangered other people as information given to them would have been on his terms.

If they were aware would that have changed their response?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Stoneyman 1 on November 21, 2009, 07:56:40 pm
David thank you. You have said what a number of people reading this thread must have thought.

I would not comment of Moorehouse's ability,activities or state of mind, to do so could leave me open to litigation. Because I have not meet him & am not in a position to form a judgment.

I would think that some of the comments on this forum could leave the people posting them in a similar position in a number of different ways, frightening. Being on the net does not allow people to make the kind of statements  expresses here, it is a public forum  open to anyone.  The administrates can not hide behind "a clause" in the registration as this could be challenged. They do have a responsibility.

Finally, this kind of pillorying of another human being is not acceptable, let have some decency. I suspect that people get carried away with the issue. Stop & thing please. You are not showing yourselves, this forum
 or the caving world in a good light. Please call a halt to this thread.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 21, 2009, 08:16:00 pm
I really don't think you can discredit his post on that forum, it should be taken 100% seriously.
I would take his post on the other forum more seriously if it didn't talk about "during a rescue", "as a team leader", etc as we know this wasn't the case.

He may well have been suicidal and that's not something that any of us can dispute nor is something that should be ridiculed. I feel that it's not really an avenue that we should explore as it's really none of our business.

The only thing that I would say is that his apparently fragile mental state is perhaps even more of a reason for him not to be leading parties of novices into hazardous environments.

I would not comment of Moorehouse's ability,activities or state of mind, to do so could leave me open to litigation. Because I have not meet him & am not in a position to form a judgment.
I can only speak for myself but the only comment that I have made is that he has lied about belonging to rescue organisations. Surely whether you've met him or not is irrelevant?

The administrates can not hide behind "a clause" in the registration as this could be challenged. They do have a responsibility.
I'm not hiding behind anything, I'm just making it clear that I provide the software and the database, the posts/opinions/etc of users are their own. I/we moderate anything that we believe crosses the line of acceptability.  The last time I took legal advice on a similar matter then I was reassured that the forum could not be prosecuted. If you are a lawyer, or know a lawyer that specialises in internet law then it would be good to clarify such issues.

Finally, this kind of pillorying of another human being is not acceptable, let have some decency.
The issue here is that this guy is taking novices into hazardous situations without the expertise to back it up. The folly of this has been demonstrated in the past as there was a very real accident in Giants.

You may see it as "pillorying" but I believe it's important that this person's activities receive publicity in the hope that others may see it and he's not allowed to gain access to leadership of parties of unwitting novices in the future.

What's more important, not hurting one guy's feelings or preventing people from getting killed in a cave?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 21, 2009, 08:58:15 pm
Messing with people's heads is a very dangerous thing to do. Just as irresponsible as leading innocent novices into dangerous situations, because both can easily lead to physical harm, and none of us want that I hope.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 21, 2009, 09:49:37 pm

Who's messing with his head?

So what should we do? Just leave him to it?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Stoneyman 1 on November 21, 2009, 11:08:59 pm
Bubba, I have read your last 2 posts. Your response to mine was balanced and I would not disagree with anything you said in that post.

I can not advise you; disclaimers do not absolve administrators of responsibility, its all about whether you acted responsibly / negligently in allowing the posts. Lets all hope this is never challenged in relationship to this tread.

David & Peter are right in what they say, heed David, he has much experience in that area.

Re your second post: To answer the question "what should we do".  If you & others feel so strongly about this man activities take some "advise" as to how he might be "called off" & by whom. It will not be achieved by this thread, because it will not reach his "target market", joe public. So it serves no purpose other then allowing people to vent their feeling about his activities.
Some of the comments have crossed over what is acceptable & decent to say about another person. This does not show the individuals, the forum or Derbyshire caving in a good light.

If you & others really feel strongly that this man is dangerous, find some constructive way to stop him. BUT please do it privately, not in the public domain.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Bushman on November 21, 2009, 11:21:17 pm
Quote from: bubba
...

What is a bannable offence?
I think we all know what is and what isn't acceptable on this forum but for the benefits of new or recent users.

    * Trolling and malicious hijacking of topics.
    * Personal insults/attacks/threats - we're all adults, keep it civil.
    * Hatred: Sexism/Racism/etc - most of us know what is and isn't acceptable and what is and isn't real hatred.

...
Erm we not following rules anymore?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 21, 2009, 11:32:49 pm
Erm we not following rules anymore?
What are you talking about? Where is any kind of serious personal insult, attack or threat?

If you don't like this topic then don't keep coming back and reading it.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Bushman on November 21, 2009, 11:39:36 pm
...Where is any kind of serious personal insult, attack or threat?...
Have you read any of this topic? The whole thing is personal attack.
If you don't like this topic then don't keep coming back and reading it.
No. This topic is not doing Derbyshire cavers any good at all and needs stopping.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: RobinGriffiths on November 21, 2009, 11:42:21 pm
There was a 'lock this thread' request a few days ago. I've been away since then and have only just had a chance to read recent posts. I was a bit queasy about the way things were going when I posted my previous response, and had my initial doubts re-confirmed when catching up. I don't know this guy, will probably never meet him, but it isn't on to hatchet job someone on a public forum like this. If someone has any reason to think he's a risk to himself or others, then presumably there's someone in 'authority' who can be approached.


Robin
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 21, 2009, 11:48:46 pm
It will not be achieved by this thread, because it will not reach his "target market", joe public.
I absolutely disagree. This guy was originally brought to light on these forums in 2004. Since then I've had quite a few people contact me regarding him. This is because by typing his name into Google search, this site is high on the list of results. A lot of "joe public" know how to use Google.

I'm happy to keep it that way - in this case publicity is good. If you don't feel comfortable reading about it then avoid the topic.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 21, 2009, 11:54:01 pm
Have you read any of this topic? The whole thing is personal attack.
It's not a personal attack at all - I have nothing against Andrew Moorhouse, I just want him to stop telling people that he's some sort of rescue-hero in order to ensnare beginners and take them into harms way. If he stopped doing that then I suspect all of us would be happy never to hear his name again. A public health warning isn't a personal attack.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Servo on November 22, 2009, 12:33:19 am
Thanks Bubba, i think you have summed it up perfectly. Surely the more people fully aware the better.

If you start sugar coating things and tip toeing around the fact then whats going to help prevent a serious incident?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: graham on November 22, 2009, 08:54:28 am
I have intentionally kept out of this thread, as i do not know either the people or the issues involved. However given the way the thread has trended I would ask:

Do any of the people who are unhappy with this thread know exactly what happened on the day of the rescue from Giant's and, if so, could they enlighten us?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: zomjon on November 22, 2009, 09:04:12 am
Wouldn't just a single, clearly written warning about Mr Moorhouse and our concerns, kept at the top of the Derbyshire and Newbies page suffice. I expect if we all came across each other more frequently underground, and noted each others' caving techniques, we'd soon decide that some people were just not safe to cave with (or too fast, too adventurous, too bloody slim or just too boring!)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: zomjon on November 22, 2009, 09:06:42 am
And that's to be a locked topic, there's enough tribal warfare going on in Wales at present!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: scoobz on November 22, 2009, 09:15:37 am
I have been friends with Andrew for the past 4 months, and contrary to what people are saying in here, he is not "a complete loon". I can't believe what some people who have probably never met him are coming out with in here.
So perhaps you can put the record straight then? What are his motives for preying on beginners and gaining their trust by giving them a misleading picture of his expertise, and inventing bogus credentials?
I have absolutely no idea what his motives are, as I myself are an "absolute beginner" who trusted him to lead me safely in and out of Giant's Hole. He's just come over to me as a likeable guy, who's tried his best to make friends with members of the Walking Group I'm a member of, in all sorts of different ways. The worst thing I can personally accuse him of is over exuberance, and over confidence in other people's abilities. Not for a minute could I ever say that he concocted a situation on purpose so that he could get some sort of "hero status". Out of a need to maybe impress people with his caving knowledge and experience he encouraged people who probably weren't physically capable to go down Garland's, that's the only critiscism I can level at him in the 4 months I have known him.
Incidentally, probably because he's been following this thread, he's now more or less uncontactable. 

Moderator Comment quotes
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 22, 2009, 09:34:49 am
On the basis of what has beed posted here, then even if you think it is inappropriate to sympathise with Mr Moorhouse, then at least try to empathise with him, and if that is not possible, then say nothing.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Stoneyman 1 on November 22, 2009, 10:33:25 am

There was a 'lock this thread' request a few days ago. I've been away since then and have only just had a chance to read recent posts. I was a bit queasy about the way things were going when I posted my previous response, and had my initial doubts re-confirmed when catching up. I don't know this guy, will probably never meet him, but it isn't on to hatchet job someone on a public forum like this. If someone has any reason to think he's a risk to himself or others, then presumably there's someone in 'authority' who can be approached.

Thanks Robin, you have put it so well.





Moderator Comment quotes
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 22, 2009, 11:59:55 am
what get me is.....

* he posts on a suicide forum, about an accident that his him very very hard (enough to post on there etc.)

* Am i correct in saying that he was involved/caused (be it negligence or lack of knowledge i dont know) an accident  dow giants at garlands, that resulted in a rescue, please correct me if i'm wrong.

*Then he put other novices in danger again (at garlands) and from what the gut who was there posted, quite pushy to get people to go down there.....

well.....either the first bit is a load of drivel..... or if its all true the guy is going to keep on doing it. because tbh if i was involved in the first kind of act involving a death, even if it didn't phase me emotionless, the brain would kick in and say "ey up lad....give this lark a rest". Not keep doing it.....

At the end of the day YES i madre some childish posts, YES i made some stupid posts but at the end of the day this is a serious matter, and this chap needs reporting to the authorities as its clear he is and is going to put people in danger.

TBH there is a lot of PC warrior posts on here..... the thread doesnt want binning.

Bubba may i suggest that you clean it up (bin all the daft comments/arguing), lock it and Pin it so all can view.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 22, 2009, 12:04:28 pm
Turner, do you personally know anyone who has either written or talked about self-harm or suicide?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: martinr on November 22, 2009, 12:09:44 pm
I will probably be shot down in flames fo saying this....

Has anyone considered contacting this guy with a view to getting him to join a caving club to get some proper training? Rather than just slagging him off.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 22, 2009, 12:13:07 pm
I will probably be shot down in flames fo saying this....

Has anyone considered contacting this guy with a view to getting him to join a caving club to get some proper training? Rather than just slagging him off.


I'll not shoot you down. It's a sensible question.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 22, 2009, 12:21:22 pm
Turner, do you personally know anyone who has either written or talked about self-harm or suicide?

yes but what significance does this have with what i just said?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 22, 2009, 12:26:55 pm
but at the end of the day this is a serious matter, and this chap needs reporting to the authorities as its clear he is and is going to put people in danger.
Unfortunately there isn't such an authority. It's not illegal to make false claims about your leadership skills/experience. It's not illegal to say that you're part of a non-existent rescue team.

Perhaps if he were doing it for money, ie running courses/outdoor instruction then such things would be illegal but since he does it by befriending newcomers to the sport there's little that can be done.

I believe that he is well known to both the police and the local rescue organisations. I used to work with a guy from the local MRT and he's now fully aware of what's been going on.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 22, 2009, 12:30:01 pm
down to the great justice system we have then......"only do something about it when something bad has already happened" :( typical....
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 22, 2009, 12:31:30 pm
Turner, do you personally know anyone who has either written or talked about self-harm or suicide?

yes but what significance does this have with what i just said?

Because, (and I suppose it very much depends on the troubled individual), I would never try to second guess the motives of someone who had, for fear of aggravating the situation. Because I am not an expert, and wouldn't pretend to be one. That's all.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on November 22, 2009, 12:40:28 pm
Just because somebody has mental health issues it doesn't mean that they should be tip-toed around and allowed free reign to involve other people in their fantasy-world.

I'm fully aware of the seriousness of some of these topics, in fact I have first hand experience of both myself and my partner feeling suicidal in the past. Depression for me, other reasons for my partner. That doesn't mean that just because I felt that way I should have been allowed to go round conning other people. Yes, it's sad that he has felt that way and everyone who's met him says he comes across as a nice bloke, but that's not what's at stake here.

Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Turner on November 22, 2009, 12:43:07 pm
Turner, do you personally know anyone who has either written or talked about self-harm or suicide?

yes but what significance does this have with what i just said?

Because, (and I suppose it very much depends on the troubled individual), I would never try to second guess the motives of someone who had, for fear of aggravating the situation. Because I am not an expert, and wouldn't pretend to be one. That's all.

yes i get you and i agree but....

As much trouble as the guy may be going through.... myself, i am not concerned about his well being, i believe the concern should be with others that he may put at risk
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Peter Burgess on November 22, 2009, 12:54:35 pm
I think that point has been very clearly made throughout this topic, nobody has disagreed with this in that respect, and as such what more is there to say? Any more is either unnecesary repetition, or not relevant. That is why I believe the great majority of those who have expressed their view in the "other" thread have asked for this topic to be either locked or deleted. Because as long as it is open, there is the opportunity for potentially harmful comment to be made, intentionally or otherwise. The discussion has run its course and served its purpose (as far as Bubba has defined its purpose).
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: k8te66 on March 01, 2011, 06:56:57 pm
i have read all the messages on this thread
i have been strung along by andrew moorhouse for the last couple of yrs
he told me on thursday the 24th feb he was going to commit suicide
i have been waitin since friday for someone to come and tell me this is wot he has done
i then stumbled across this website
and you can imagine wot i am now feelin
so for all of you who say live and let live
or leave him alone wot harm is he doin
well let ,e tell you he is doin harm
to ppl like me
ppl who trust him either bein in the climbin or cavin world
or on a personel level so yes this guy needs stopped
i have a phone number that i am passing onto the police
he talked about suicide for 2 yrs and gave me a bullshit story about why he couldn,t live anymore
so guys try bein where i am now its not funny and i dare say not funny for the ppl who have been injured durin his stupidity
kate
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Burt on March 01, 2011, 07:55:01 pm
If I were you Kate, I'd pass on his details and a few examples of his work to the local plod, then delete everything you have on him from your life.

There's way more good people than bad 'uns. Join a local caving club, have  few beers and talk to lots of people, then maybe go caving with one of the good ones.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Newbie2013 on April 04, 2013, 09:09:07 pm
Andrew Moorhouse is still the liar and conman that is suggested on the Internet forums however is now using a different name...

I met Andrew Gilleard through a dating website, first impressions are that he is a gentleman. Andrew told me that he was an active member of search and rescue as well as an outwards bounds instructor. He also stated that he was an active reserve in the army, often working with the civilian police. The skills that this man claims to have is unbelievable (I know that now..) he slowly fed me a pack of lies about who he is and what he does. As I have now found out Andrew Moorhouse is his real name and he is a compulsive liar and cannot be trusted. He has not got any outdoor qualifications but does come across as knowing what he is doing - but he doesn't. What his aim is I'm not sure but there is an element of financial gain. If you are female and says he loves you, wants to marry you and hasn't felt that way since his fiancé died - well he's said it all before. There is so much more I could say about this man however all I'm going to say is avoid this man.
Title: Re: Andrew Gilleard is Andrew Moorhouse
Post by: Cap'n Chris on April 04, 2013, 09:15:45 pm
Andrew Moorhouse is still the liar and conman that is suggested on the Internet forums however is now using a different name...

I met Andrew Gilleard through a dating website, first impressions are that he is a gentleman. Andrew told me that he was an active member of search and rescue as well as an outwards bounds instructor. He also stated that he was an active reserve in the army, often working with the civilian police. The skills that this man claims to have is unbelievable (I know that now..) he slowly fed me a pack of lies about who he is and what he does. As I have now found out Andrew Moorhouse is his real name and he is a compulsive liar and cannot be trusted. He has not got any outdoor qualifications but does come across as knowing what he is doing - but he doesn't. What his aim is I'm not sure but there is an element of financial gain. If you are female and says he loves you, wants to marry you and hasn't felt that way since his fiancé died - well he's said it all before. There is so much more I could say about this man however all I'm going to say is avoid this man.

Just quoted this post and re-titled the thread so that bots pick it up and help increase the likelihood of success for anyone searching for information about "Mr. Infamous".
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: chrisporcheret on April 05, 2013, 11:58:33 pm
http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html)

This monkeys website, 
Some comedy material here, he says he is 30, and joined the army from school in 1989.... so he was 6/7 years old?
He also gets called upon for regular service, I myself am in the army and I can tell you now that it never will happen unles ww3 kicks of ( at the moment who knows)

What a monkey.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: JessopSmythe on April 06, 2013, 12:23:41 am
It's an archive page from January 2003, which would mean he was 16/17.

The bloke's enough of an arse to provide plenty of material without us taking the piss out of the bits that could be right!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: chrisporcheret on April 06, 2013, 09:19:55 am
It's an archive page from January 2003, which would mean he was 16/17.

The bloke's enough of an arse to provide plenty of material without us taking the piss out of the bits that could be right!

Fair one. I misread the date.
Still wouldn't believe someone like that got in the army and through training though lol
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on April 06, 2013, 12:11:03 pm
http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html)

This monkeys website, 
Some comedy material here, he says he is 30, and joined the army from school in 1989.... so he was 6/7 years old?
He also gets called upon for regular service, I myself am in the army and I can tell you now that it never will happen unles ww3 kicks of ( at the moment who knows)

Er, reservists DO get called up quite frequently depending on the skills shortage during a particular operation. My wife being an example. We don't really know what the truth is here but I can't see him hitting it off with the Regular Army who can sniff bullshit from 1000 yards.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: chrisporcheret on April 06, 2013, 07:39:55 pm
http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20030106223841/http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andrewmoorhouse/index.html)

This monkeys website, 
Some comedy material here, he says he is 30, and joined the army from school in 1989.... so he was 6/7 years old?
He also gets called upon for regular service, I myself am in the army and I can tell you now that it never will happen unles ww3 kicks of ( at the moment who knows)

Er, reservists DO get called up quite frequently depending on the skills shortage during a particular operation. My wife being an example. We don't really know what the truth is here but I can't see him hitting it off with the Regular Army who can sniff bullshit from 1000 yards.

What did your wife do in the army?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on April 07, 2013, 07:56:03 am
She was a theatre nurse with the QA's. She was called up twice in 18 months. As an ex Reg TM I can assure you that people lke Mr M can find their way into the TA with startling ease. How long they last is a different matter. His profile suggests that he may well have had some military experience (cadets?) or spends a lot of time in surplus stores. Stag on!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: chrisporcheret on April 07, 2013, 12:16:01 pm
She was a theatre nurse with the QA's. She was called up twice in 18 months. As an ex Reg TM I can assure you that people lke Mr M can find their way into the TA with startling ease. How long they last is a different matter. His profile suggests that he may well have had some military experience (cadets?) or spends a lot of time in surplus stores. Stag on!

Thats fair enough about your missus but for the teeth arms and most corps its unlikely :)
Mr M probably doesnt know what get a mag on and stag on means.

I think we have said enough about said person.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: david3392 on April 07, 2013, 01:21:20 pm
Absolutely agree, previous posts about this person went completely out of hand. I had a feeling of 'hear we go again' when the topic was brought up a few days ago. No more from me.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: millsy001 on April 25, 2014, 05:56:54 pm
I know it is a year since the last post on this forum but I have had a run in with this guy. He managed to con me, a friend and her two children into going caving.  I am concerned that he is still doing this and that he is now involving children. Thankfully we came out of the cave safely with no major incident. He was supposedly 'training' a guy to become a caving instructor.  Has anyone got any advice what I should do? Should I report to someone that he is back in business.  He didn't charge us as it was a training exercise, I just wonder how much he is charging the guy for the training. 
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bograt on April 25, 2014, 06:33:27 pm
Hmm, yet another first time poster, it seems every time this topic is re-started it is from a first-time poster.  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Pete K on April 25, 2014, 06:39:29 pm
Probably because it appears on Google. What has someone to gain from stirring?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bograt on April 25, 2014, 06:48:06 pm
A woman scorned??----
(Or should that be spurned?)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Anon on April 25, 2014, 06:58:06 pm
How do these people find out about "whatever name he goes under" and his arranged caving activities in the first instance?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: jasonbirder on April 25, 2014, 07:07:01 pm
Quote
He managed to con me, a friend and her two children into going caving...Thankfully we came out of the cave safely with no major incident.

And so after having been taking caving...and exited the cave with no drama...you thought it was worth registering on UKCaving to post about it...hidden agenda methinks!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Big Jim on April 25, 2014, 07:11:36 pm
Is Millsy001 the same Millys001 that is registered on this dating site and from Sheffield. http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=49741893 (http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=49741893)
The thick plottens...
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bubba on April 25, 2014, 07:37:06 pm
Probably because it appears on Google. What has someone to gain from stirring?
Yep. Search engine referrals and links from the Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Andrew-Moorhouse-Andrew-Gilleard-Andrew-Foster-Andrew-Spencer/216874375001405).

The women that this tosser cons/tries to con aren't cavers, they just end up here after googling him.  Long may this continue, the man is a danger to women and should continue to be exposed. I appreciate that this isn't really caving related and may annoy some users but it is what is is.

Is Millsy001 the same Millys001 that is registered on this dating site and from Sheffield. http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=49741893 (http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=49741893)
The thick plottens...
In what way is this relevant?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: jasonbirder on April 25, 2014, 10:57:32 pm
While the guy may well be a tosser of the first order...in what way is it caving related to have a thread specially set up so his (ex) girlfriends can register and slag him off???
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: paul on April 25, 2014, 11:04:39 pm
Because it may prevent an accident in the future if someone else gets duped and then finds out what has happened before?
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bograt on April 25, 2014, 11:07:01 pm
While the guy may well be a tosser of the first order...in what way is it caving related to have a thread specially set up so his (ex) girlfriends can register and slag him off???

 ;) :thumbsup:

Although the guy has been present on this site for 12 years and not been cornered yet??
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Antwan on April 26, 2014, 09:21:12 am
While the guy may well be a tosser of the first order...in what way is it caving related to have a thread specially set up so his (ex) girlfriends can register and slag him off???

 ;) :thumbsup:

Although the guy has been present on this site for 12 years and not been cornered yet??

He did get 'cornered' for certain issues though... You just cant keep folk locked up these days  :shrug:
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: bograt on April 26, 2014, 09:42:49 am
Anyone know which pub in Sheffield he does his recruiting?. I'd like him to take this totally inexperienced pensioner caving. :unsure:
Title: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: ah147 on April 26, 2014, 06:08:09 pm
Was going to write a long post explaining my intentions. But instead I'll simply say I wish no harm on the guy. Can anyone PM me any sort of contact details for him?

Several people who I know are definitely reading this who know who I am can Facebook/text/ring/email me to ask the intention.


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Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: ah147 on April 26, 2014, 09:12:55 pm

While the guy may well be a tosser of the first order...in what way is it caving related to have a thread specially set up so his (ex) girlfriends can register and slag him off???

On another note, Jason it's not you is it? :P


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Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: jasonbirder on April 26, 2014, 10:41:31 pm
 :chair:
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Mark on May 04, 2014, 08:04:50 am
Apparently Moorhouse was the reason behind the call out to Devonshire cavern, in the middle of  Keith's Wake
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: jonnyrocketboots on May 04, 2014, 10:42:50 am
Apparently Moorhouse was the reason behind the call out to Devonshire cavern, in the middle of  Keith's Wake
Devonshire?? What on earth can go so wrong in there to warrant a call out?  FFS!!
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: AR on May 04, 2014, 11:31:09 am
Devonshire has a lot of places you could come to grief quite easily if you're off the routes approved for centre use, for example the topmost updip workings, especially if you try and get directly to them over the breakdown.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Pete K on May 05, 2014, 01:58:04 pm
If the gentleman was either voluntarily or for-profit 'leading' a group/individual down there and was off route or without a paid copy of the certified mine inspectors report I should imagine that the HSE may need a word. If he was acting 'professionally' (in the broadest sense of the word) then the mines legislation might just be a way of getting something legal to stick to this character.
(I was neither there nor do I know any more than in this thread.)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Mark on May 05, 2014, 06:13:39 pm
or without a paid copy of the certified mine inspectors report

Who is this mines inspector I keep hearing about
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Pete K on May 05, 2014, 06:23:46 pm
The mines inspections are organised through PICA and are a requirement for anyone leading in a mine professionally, regardless of whether they charge or not. A mine must have a valid inspection report to be deemed appropriate for group use. Only those inspected for this purpose may be used.
PICA organise an inspection every year and have a dozen or so sites on their list which get inspected anywhere from bi-annually to as and when change occurs.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: TheBitterEnd on May 05, 2014, 08:33:06 pm
Sorry to be a bit pedantic but officially the Mines Inspectorate http://www.hse.gov.uk/mining/contacts.htm (http://www.hse.gov.uk/mining/contacts.htm) is now a branch of the HSE, it used to be a separate body set up under the Mines and Quarries Act. By-and-large it deals with working mines but has some duties for abandoned mines and tips.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: mmilner on May 05, 2014, 09:17:02 pm
The mines inspections are organised through PICA and are a requirement for anyone leading in a mine professionally, regardless of whether they charge or not. A mine must have a valid inspection report to be deemed appropriate for group use. Only those inspected for this purpose may be used.
PICA organise an inspection every year and have a dozen or so sites on their list which get inspected anywhere from bi-annually to as and when change occurs.

Hi Pete. Ok, a couple of questions:-

1. What do they define as 'leading in a mine professionally'? (Esp. if no charge is made.)

Eg:- If I were to lead a bunch (group) of peeps down Hillocks for example?

2. Can we see a list of this 'dozen or so sites'?

Regards, Mel.
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Pete K on May 05, 2014, 09:29:39 pm
Hi Mel.
I think it mainly concerns under 18s primarily but as far as I'm aware, anyone operating with a qualification falls under the legislation. I'd contact Graham Jones at PICA if you want an iron clad definition.
The list should also be available from that source, however the inspection report will be charged for. If you have a specific venue in mind PM me or start a new thread.

Back on topic......
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Brains on October 12, 2019, 06:53:30 pm
https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2019/10/11/serial-disappearer-andrew-moorhouse-reported-missing-again?fbclid=IwAR3KopJQ8SEP3btyo5FldUMiHgGbeUHKmaG9fwYBgGyChSD90UyTlyrzBYw (https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2019/10/11/serial-disappearer-andrew-moorhouse-reported-missing-again?fbclid=IwAR3KopJQ8SEP3btyo5FldUMiHgGbeUHKmaG9fwYBgGyChSD90UyTlyrzBYw)

More shenanigans...

(oops, cross posted - sorry!)
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: Oceanrower on October 12, 2019, 09:43:51 pm
Hi Mel.
I think it mainly concerns under 18s primarily but as far as I'm aware, anyone operating with a qualification falls under the legislation. I'd contact Graham Jones at PICA if you want an iron clad definition.
The list should also be available from that source, however the inspection report will be charged for. If you have a specific venue in mind PM me or start a new thread.

Back on topic......

And, if you're operating without a qualification? Which is perfectly legal, even if you are charging...
Title: Re: Moorhouse is back!
Post by: moorebooks on October 13, 2019, 09:17:35 am
Sorry to be a bit pedantic but officially the Mines Inspectorate http://www.hse.gov.uk/mining/contacts.htm (http://www.hse.gov.uk/mining/contacts.htm) is now a branch of the HSE, it used to be a separate body set up under the Mines and Quarries Act. By-and-large it deals with working mines but has some duties for abandoned mines and tips.

The definition of a working mine for leisure use is fine if you are a club or group of individuals exploring and enjoying the hobby.The same  If its a caver taking some mates on a casual visit and presuming you haven't been  negligent in any way .  Assuming there no access issues  and usual things with bats etc you just get on with it.

However, if you are leading Joe Public around a mine then the legislation and expectations are greater. It  also  becomes a working mine regardless of payment.  Its also not considering  it as an in production mine!!  The burden of responsibility and duty of care  lands on the person  doing the guiding professionally or otherwise

Mike