Author Topic: BCA Meeting CRoW Report  (Read 8267 times)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2016, 07:48:45 am »
it is sad to see on twitter a very personal attack on Tim, especially as he is doing what has been asked of him from BCA. Fortunately Tim must have big shoulders as he has conducted himself above this personal attack
and whether cavers agree or disagree with Crow or in that matter anything else we should keep things factual and not fall to these depths of personal insults

I had a quick glance at that - and I agree those words are probably not appropriate. Then again I have no knowledge of what discussion led up to it. (Maybe those words on Twitter would be easier to understand if the whole conversation leading up to the post was known? I don't know - just trying to think it through logically.)

I'm one of a large number of active cavers who will be disappointed by some aspects of decisions taken by the BCA meeting at the weekend. But I'm not going to make negative comments and I wholeheartedly agree with the last line of Badger's post above. Let's not fall out folks; it never gets things sorted . . . .

Offline Madness

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2016, 07:50:53 am »
Especially when the person concerned has no ability to defend themselves on here any more.

Why? Has he been banned? I assumed he had left of his own choice. In which case he could come back and defend his Twitter comments.

Offline droid

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2016, 08:44:54 am »
Hear hear Jenny.

I think it's fair to say that "education AND better access" has been the consensus at all recent CNCC meetings and the CNCC have been unanimously in favour of CRoW.

In which order?
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2016, 09:26:15 am »
Ah - I just realised that my most recent post above might be taken by some as justification for those adverse comments being discussed. It wasn't - it's just that we don't know the background to these words. There's often more to a situation than at first meets the eye.

Really, all I was saying was, let's keep things in proportion and remember that we all have a great deal in common.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2016, 10:03:39 am »
Especially when the person concerned has no ability to defend themselves on here any more.

Why? Has he been banned? I assumed he had left of his own choice. In which case he could come back and defend his Twitter comments.
Your assumption is incorrect.

Offline fredthedog

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2016, 10:50:01 am »
( scraping the bottom of the barrel ??)  ::) ::)

No, that's taking an icon (or one very like it) that someone on here used to use and adding a Hitler moustache. I call Godwin's Law. Especially when the person concerned has no ability to defend themselves on here any more.

You don't for a second think he brought that on himself with his shenanigans?

Yes, it's harsh, and probably the sentiment is one that *many* on here will agree with. The problem is, I don't know many famous control freaks that didn't commit atrocities that could be used in place of it... any suggestions?

There are no doubt a lot of people on here and elsewhere who could be described as control freaks, but I think you'll find that Hitler was a lot more than just a control freak.

It now seems acceptable on here to get at people by poking fun at their avatars. I now seem to be on the receiving end of this same sort of 'humour'. As a relative newcomer to the forum, that strikes me as bullying and unpleasant and certainly doesn't encourage participation.

Please, feel free to call me Fred. Let's all play like nice puppies.

Offline fredthedog

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2016, 10:53:56 am »

Agreed. But the latter should be the prize for completing the former.

Agreed. Otherwise it's a case of putting the cart before the horse.
Please, feel free to call me Fred. Let's all play like nice puppies.

Offline David Rose

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2016, 11:43:58 am »
Why use an avatar at all, and why not your real name, fredthedog? Why not just your actual identity and a photo of yourself? I realise many don't, including the estimable Badlad (aka Tim Allen) and Pegasus (his equally estimable wife, Jane). On the other hand, most forum users know who they are.

If you don't mind, would you mind saying who you are? You obviously have a lot to contribute to the debate, which I'm sure everyone will welcome - even if they disagree with you.

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2016, 11:52:05 am »

Agreed. But the latter should be the prize for completing the former.

Agreed. Otherwise it's a case of putting the cart before the horse.

So what are you going to do? Are you going to have a cave conservation theory exam that people have to pass before they can apply for entry to your caves? That will be fun to watch.

Offline fredthedog

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2016, 12:11:47 pm »
Why use an avatar at all, and why not your real name, fredthedog? Why not just your actual identity and a photo of yourself? I realise many don't, including the estimable Badlad (aka Tim Allen) and Pegasus (his equally estimable wife, Jane). On the other hand, most forum users know who they are.

If you don't mind, would you mind saying who you are? You obviously have a lot to contribute to the debate, which I'm sure everyone will welcome - even if they disagree with you.

I'm using one of my standard internet avatars, which very easily tracks through my online presence. There is only one site on which I use an actual photo of myself, and that is in a very different, professional, context. My standard avatars tend to be either bassets or raccoons. I don't even have photos of myself to use, and didn't realise it was compulsory on here to use your actual photo and name. Looking around, I see very few who do, either.  Your request strikes me as a form of attempted doxing and even bullying. Why can't I simply interact on here as many others do?

If you want to dox me, go ahead. But on many internet forums doxing is a bannable offence. I'm not a hothouse flower and have been around caving and caving politics for 30 years but unless and until everyone on here has to introduce themselves and use actual photos, I see no reason why I should be bullied into doing so. I'm not saying it's your intention to bully me or to be malicious, but that's the effect your request is having. You claim others are turning this into a personal argument, but you are doing the exact same thing to me. Trying to bring personalities into the debate. When all users are required to identify themselves by real name and photo, I'll happily do the same. But until it's a level playing field, I'm not being drawn into that game.
Please, feel free to call me Fred. Let's all play like nice puppies.

Offline fredthedog

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2016, 12:16:19 pm »

So what are you going to do? Are you going to have a cave conservation theory exam that people have to pass before they can apply for entry to your caves? That will be fun to watch.

Have this debate with Cap'n Chris not me. I've no intention of interacting further with someone who sees doxing as an acceptable debating strategy and uses avatars seemingly to bully and intimidate.
Please, feel free to call me Fred. Let's all play like nice puppies.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2016, 12:25:45 pm »
Well said Fred.

Offline Madness

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2016, 12:27:11 pm »
Especially when the person concerned has no ability to defend themselves on here any more.

Why? Has he been banned? I assumed he had left of his own choice. In which case he could come back and defend his Twitter comments.
Your assumption is incorrect.

Please explain.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2016, 12:31:46 pm »
I assumed he had left of his own choice.
Your assumption is incorrect.
Please explain.
Does that make more sense?

Offline Madness

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2016, 12:35:21 pm »
Why use an avatar at all, and why not your real name, fredthedog? Why not just your actual identity and a photo of yourself? I realise many don't, including the estimable Badlad (aka Tim Allen) and Pegasus (his equally estimable wife, Jane). On the other hand, most forum users know who they are.

If you don't mind, would you mind saying who you are? You obviously have a lot to contribute to the debate, which I'm sure everyone will welcome - even if they disagree with you.

Avatars and forum names are just part of the culture of forums. Some people may want to use their real name and photo, others may not. There's nothing untoward or sinister about it. We should not be trying to force people to use their real names if they wish not too.

I use 'Madness' on all the forums that I'm registered with - it's a nickname that I've had for 28 years and all my friends know me by it.

Offline Madness

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2016, 12:37:20 pm »
I assumed he had left of his own choice.
Your assumption is incorrect.
Please explain.
Does that make more sense?

Peter, sometimes I wish you'd be a bit clearer with your answers.

Are you saying he was booted off/banned by the forum administrators?

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2016, 12:40:29 pm »
That's usually how people leave against their choice, I believe.

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2016, 12:52:35 pm »

Offline fredthedog

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2016, 12:56:54 pm »
Yes. this is both unfair and unpleasant.

I hope others will see it that way, too.

Please, feel free to call me Fred. Let's all play like nice puppies.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2016, 12:57:45 pm »
And off topic.

Offline Madness

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2016, 01:04:43 pm »


FFS Simon!

Can't we all just behave like grown ups? We're all cavers and have this in common at least. Lets show a bit of respect to each other

It's getting to the point where all the threads relating to CRoW should be locked for a week to enable everyone to simmer down a bit

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2016, 01:09:09 pm »
I'm one of a large number of active cavers who will be disappointed by some aspects of decisions taken by the BCA meeting at the weekend. But I'm not going to make negative comments and I wholeheartedly agree with the last line of Badger's post above. Let's not fall out folks; it never gets things sorted . . . .
A few will see even your expression of disappointment as a negative comment, I am sorry to say. 

Online Badlad

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2016, 01:09:45 pm »
Administrator Comment That is enough. Stick to the topic - leave out the wise stuff, or action will be taken

Offline bograt

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2016, 01:49:40 pm »
Interesting quote from Twitter;

Fredbassett ‏@fredbassett1  · Apr 9 

@ukcaving What a load of unmitigated bollocks! BCA are bringing caving into disrepute.




 
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment

Offline David Rose

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Re: BCA Meeting CRoW Report
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2016, 01:50:21 pm »
I wasn't trying to bully you, canine Fred. If you don't want your name to be published, that is your business. I have made the same point before in relation to others, and on other forums. As for doxing, I don't actually know what this is, so I have no intention of trying it.