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Draenen clear-up (split from Cave Conservation Rewards)

Stuart France

Active member
Difficult to know where to post this one in the present climate.

We have received a complaint about a long-abandoned camp in Ogof Draenen near Lucky 13 passage.  This camp features at about 2 minutes into a 2014 video concerning a visit to arguably the prettiest part of Dollimores:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6z_ni6AlE

The topic of camping in caves was raised at last Sunday?s PDCMG meeting but no decisions were made.  So I propose to extract as much as possible of these stoves, pots, pans, old food and alcohol, karrimats, clothes and bags of general tat from the cave on an upcoming autumn weekend and I am looking for helpers armed with a near empty large tackle bag and a drag cord.  Send me a PM to volunteer with your availability dates.

I will make this refuse collection as efficient and as interesting as possible. So, depending on the numbers of people available and their ability, we might add a trip to Snowball, Last Sandwich, Dollimores and other interesting places that you might have heard of recently but never seen.  By the way, there is more tat in Dollimores if we can shift that too.

Stuart France
Cambrian Caving Council

 

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cap n chris

Well-known member
Excellent suggestion! If you're ever in Mendip and want to win hearts and minds you might care to bring out halfnanton of rotting planks etc from Sludge Pit hole.
 

falconjosh

New member
Thanks for the post and offer for help Stuart, but it on my list to complete over the coming months with working weekend in the planning for conservative work in Draenen. So no need to worry mate, it will be cleared
Watch this space for updates about the weekend and if anyone interested post or pm me please.
Hope that?s help, many thanks

Joshua white
Conservative officer for draenen (pdcmg)
 

Stuart France

Active member
Chris - Surely abandoned ?rotting planks? in Mendip caves are more in the ambit of the CSCC?s conservation officer than Cambrian?s?  There?s rotting planks too in the Draenen No.1 Entrance for anyone interested.

Josh - My suggested camp clean-up will go ahead as advertised. Thanks for your offer and please do take out any of the camp rubbish later that our group don?t manage to extract.  I realise that living in Southampton prevents you from visiting Wales as often as you might like.

Astonishing, by the way, the variety of rubbish at the camp, as in the photo.

[gmod]A photograph has been removed from this post with consent[/gmod]


 

falconjosh

New member
Sturat I did realise that your so keen to do it yourself! You should have mentioned that you would like  to do it in the meeting. Any support and help on the conservative is always much appreciation! Hopefully you clear it all, so that I can tick it off my list of jobs to do!

Let me know once it is clear so that I know.
Any help for experience conservative officers like yourself on draenen and helping me develop and gain knowledge, is greatly appreciated.

Many thank,
Joshua white
 

zomjon

Member
There are some interesting spelling errors here! Looks like we might need some popcorn for this thread now as it gets taken over by the Draenen fiasco!
 

Long Drop

Active member
Stuart.  You were clearly not listening during the meeting. 

I believe that Chris Densham said several times that he would arrange the clear-up of the Big Beauty camp.

Not sure why you find it necessary to start this thread here, or post pictures or campers personal possessions on this forum.  Stuff at camps isn't there for you to interfere with.

L
 

Wayland Smith

Active member
Long Drop said:
Stuff at camps isn't there for you to interfere with.

There was a complaint that it was a sh1t tip!
If it's your tip, or you know who it belongs to then clear it up! (Or make it tidy and un-obvious.)
Don't just leave it there!  :spank:
 

mudman

Member
Wayland Smith said:
Long Drop said:
Stuff at camps isn't there for you to interfere with.

There was a complaint that it was a sh1t tip!
If it's your tip, or you know who it belongs to then clear it up! (Or make it tidy and un-obvious.)
Don't just leave it there!  :spank:

It must have been abandoned with some urgency. What else could explain cavers leaving alcohol behind?  :confused:
 

NigR

New member
Long Drop,

By "campers personal possessions" I assume you must be referring to the long out of date contraceptive tablets. Well, we have not found any used condoms yet (haven't looked too hard, to be honest) but you can rest assured that if and when we do there will be pictures of these on here too.

Big Beauty Junction was originally discovered and named by Mark Withers and myself back in early 1995 and it was indeed a very beautiful section of pristine cave passage; the complete opposite to what it is today. We did not find it so that tossers such as these can have their bloody birthday parties there and use it as a stopping off point for swilling rotten whisky so many years down the line, of that you can be sure!

Regarding Chris Densham, the Oxford University CC rep: he also admitted that the whisky might be his, or have you forgotten that bit (maybe you were not listening?). The camp was set up by OUCC and left in its present disgusting condition by them, so yes, I do agree the buck ultimately stops with him as he is the club rep. However, they have had plenty of opportunities to clean the place up, including very recently. Perhaps Chris and his friends could (at a stretch!) be forgiven for doing nothing on July 1st this year as their headaches were so severe, but there is no excuse whatsoever for the party of three OUCC younger members who went past there several weeks later (going both in and out of the cave) as they were travelling totally empty handed, carrying nothing at all (don't want to let anything get in the way of the speed-caving, do we?). The departing PDCMG Secretary, Fleur Loveridge, is also a member of OUCC and she passed by there herself on her most recent trip into the cave in August.

Full marks to Stuart and Cambrian Caving Council for finally taking the initiative.


Video to follow.
 

Rhys

Moderator
NigR said:
Well, we have not found any used condoms yet (haven't looked too hard, to be honest) but you can rest assured that if and when we do there will be pictures of these on here too.

I've read some truly bizarre stuff on this forum, particularly related to Draenen. However, I think this really takes the biscuit!

If it floats your boat Nig, go for it!

Rhys
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
NigR said:
But there is no excuse whatsoever for the party of three OUCC younger members who went past there several weeks later (going both in and out of the cave) as they were travelling totally empty handed, carrying nothing at all

It strikes me that this is riding roughshod over all OUCC members because you have an axe to Grind.

I know a few OUCC members who I quite like, they are very accommodating. Indeed I have heard them specifically say that they have not been a part of the old OUCC but have tried to make amends and be accepted by Welsh clubs and Stuart France.
This mindset was crushed by a heavy handed approach which saw them being blasted for having not returned a hut key within a handful of days of leaving the Hut.
This approach to dealing with student groups will lead you to becoming isolated in your view. Yes there will be people who sympathise with your view, but you could try a different approach and not make judgements.

Have you attempted to talk to the current members of OUCC? They are actually quite keen all round cavers and perhaps could do with your support or perhaps you would be better having their support?

Some situations can be mutually beneficial.
 
Alastair - It sounds like you are grinding somebody else's axe!

I, and probably the handful of other old OUCC members who post on here, would love to hear the views and exploits of current OUCC members (whether you quite like them or not). The club used to be very good on passing on news of its discoveries but this stopped some seven years ago for Draenen, and pretty much entirely four years ago. Have they found nothing in Draenen since 2010 despite their digging and camping trips?

And I'm pretty sure Nig does not have a Hut which he lends out keys to ... perhaps your reference is to Stuart helping out with administration of Whitewalls for Chelsea: in either case it's not relevant here is it?
 

NigR

New member
Alastair,

I would be more than willing to talk to some of the current crop of OUCC cavers, particularly if they have a more rational and enlightened approach than some of their predecessors. Tell them to feel free to contact me directly or pass me on their details and I will contact them myself. I take your point concerning "tarring everyone with the same brush" and I apologise if my comments have caused offence to any innocent parties. Believe me, I would love to be proved wrong in my assessment of their club.

Regarding supporting student caving in general, I entirely concur with your view: it should be encouraged in as many ways as possible. If current OUCC members (or any other student groups) encounter problems whilst caving in South Wales (particularly with regard to access) then just let me know and I will do whatever I can to help. I have made many worthwhile contacts over the years and if these can be put to good use to benefit the next generation of cavers, then so much the better.
 

Stuart France

Active member
"a heavy handed approach which saw them being blasted for having not returned a hut key within a handful of days of leaving the Hut"

I'm not sure which hut or student club this comment is about.  The club that I'm a member of has had mainly good experiences but the occasional unfortunate one too.  One university club has lost two hut keys on different visits which is mainly a nuisance but also a concern if they were dropped near the building, while another club left the door unlocked with the electricity and gas turned on which is worrying.

I'm all in favour letting out our hut to student caving clubs and any other bona fide cavers.  We could easily check up on a Monday that things were left OK as various of our members live locally.  But it would be nice if it was always left safe and cleaned up thanks.

This thread began about cleaning up parts of Ogof Draenen so we're heading a bit off topic here with lost hut keys and lack of spectacular discoveries (until lately).  So hoping that some good news will appear soon on topic.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
Martin Laverty said:
Alastair - It sounds like you are grinding somebody else's axe!

I, and probably the handful of other old OUCC members who post on here, would love to hear the views and exploits of current OUCC members (whether you quite like them or not). The club used to be very good on passing on news of its discoveries but this stopped some seven years ago for Draenen, and pretty much entirely four years ago. Have they found nothing in Draenen since 2010 despite their digging and camping trips?

Perhaps my use of 'old' was a misnomer. I was merely referring to the fact that the "three younger members" could not necessarily be blamed for the setting up of the camp in that particular location by the relatively older members of OUCC (but not old).

I owe a particular debt of Gratitude to the old members of OUCC and YUCPC who created two very good clubs with good collaboration on the Picos de Europa caving expeditions. I owe that Gratitude due to the fact that I would never have started caving if it weren't for York.
Perhaps I may even get out there at some point myself, one can dream.

Sorry Stuart, cannot apologise enough from taking the thread off topic. But also cannot sit by and see general aspersions cast about a student club.
As you should be well aware from other topics, sometimes University caving clubs are the first societies to be kicked out (of the union) for any excuse.
 
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