What caving related thing did you do today?

[pwhole]

Jesus, good luck with that! Even when using a mat I'm wearing goggles, leather gloves and ear defenders. And even with a mat I've had a piece of brass embedded in my chest and one in my hand (when I forgot the leather gloves and used regular work gloves), both whizzing through the tiny gap worn by the pin. It really hurt.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

Jesus, good luck with that! Even when using a mat I'm wearing goggles, leather gloves and ear defenders. And even with a mat I've had a piece of brass embedded in my chest and one in my hand (when I forgot the leather gloves and used regular work gloves), both whizzing through the tiny gap worn by the pin. It really hurt.

we do learn from our mistakes and other's mistakes, I'll have to add goggles to my list, I could see why to use ear defenders in a cave or mine, I already have some hearing problems, but I'm way off doing any capping anytime soon I'm rusty as hell, but with the info you've given, it gives me something to think about and consider and grow from.

 

[mikem]

It could only take one badly handled capping case to get all explosive use by cavers banned, please consider contacting https://eug.bcra.org.uk/

United Cavers Exploration Team - UCET Forum - Topic: Hilti Capping (1/2)

A couple of people have recently asked 'what is capping'. Being no expert at all on this i thought i'd post this ... - English (United Kingdom)

www.ucet.org.uk

 

[pwhole]

we do learn from our mistakes and other's mistakes, I'll have to add goggles to my list, I could see why to use ear defenders in a cave or mine, I already have some hearing problems, but I'm way off doing any capping anytime soon I'm rusty as hell, but with the info you've given, it gives me something to think about and consider and grow from.

Yeah, it's not so bad outdoors for the noise, but inside, definitely use some sort of ear protection. The food grade blue conveyor belt is really good for mats, as it's light and flexible, so fits in awkward spaces easier, and still tough. I glue a 10cm circle in the middle so it's double thickness, and even did a third 3cm circle initially but it fell off. But was studded with brass shrapnel, so it works. A penny washer helps in that regard too. The one pictured was assembled on the fly just before the trip, so all separates.

But yes, please do use as much body protection as you can, always. One in the eye is blind for sure, and very, very difficult to explain at A&E, especially if it's all leaking out on the floor.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

It could only take one badly handled capping case to get all explosive use by cavers banned, please consider contacting https://eug.bcra.org.uk/

United Cavers Exploration Team - UCET Forum - Topic: Hilti Capping (1/2)

A couple of people have recently asked 'what is capping'. Being no expert at all on this i thought i'd post this ... - English (United Kingdom)

www.ucet.org.uk

That video is crazy, but the link you sent looks good, so is that for cave diggers who want to do capping while cave-digging, That sounds good I'll send them an E-mail, through the contact info for sure,

Just one question: do you get to speak to like-minded people in that group?

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

Yeah, it's not so bad outdoors for the noise, but inside, definitely use some sort of ear protection. The food grade blue conveyor belt is really good for mats, as it's light and flexible, so fits in awkward spaces easier, and still tough. I glue a 10cm circle in the middle so it's double thickness, and even did a third 3cm circle initially but it fell off. But was studded with brass shrapnel, so it works. A penny washer helps in that regard too. The one pictured was assembled on the fly just before the trip, so all separates.

But yes, please do use as much body protection as you can, always. One in the eye is blind for sure, and very, very difficult to explain at A&E, especially if it's all leaking out on the floor.

This is amazing advice, which I am thankful for, this is what I love about this community, it's all about learning.
I'm hoping to join someone underground who is doing it and learn from them too, and help them with some hauling or buy them a beer or two, just need to keep my eyes out.

 

[cap n chris]

Capping is for people who like random visits to A&E.

 

[Badlad]

Sorry Lumenchild. I hadn't realised when I posted my rather curt comment that they were videos of yourself trying out capping. If I had I would have put a smiley face on there too If you are in the Dales and you want a few pointers as to how we go on then do get in touch. We buy caps, tens of thousands a time and on some greedy digs, such as Mayday Hole, Five Ways, etc, get through 300 a day easily. No visits to A&E either. Cheers

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I thought that Forum policy was not to include capping posts. My mate was using the normal technique and a rogue cap shot out of the hole and somehow passed the mat to be embedded in his finger. Went into the bone. Lots of blood if you want to see the photo. We mostly rely on plug and feathers now. A properly constructed slide hammer should have a metal plate above the firing pin.

 

[Roger W]

I'm just reminded of Fred Dibnah's comment - "One mistake here and it's an afternoon out with the undertaker."

(That was up factory chimneys, though.)

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

Sorry Lumenchild. I hadn't realised when I posted my rather curt comment that they were videos of yourself trying out capping. If I had I would have put a smiley face on there too If you are in the Dales and you want a few pointers as to how we go on then do get in touch. We buy caps, tens of thousands a time and on some greedy digs, such as Mayday Hole, Five Ways, etc, get through 300 a day easily. No visits to A&E either. Cheers

Thank you, That's such an amazing offer I'd love to join you guys sometime 100%

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

I thought that Forum policy was not to include capping posts. My mate was using the normal technique and a rogue cap shot out of the hole and somehow passed the mat to be embedded in his finger. Went into the bone. Lots of blood if you want to see the photo. We mostly rely on plug and feathers now. A properly constructed slide hammer should have a metal plate above the firing pin.

I haven't yet used plug & feathers, only because I haven't got any, I am also looking into the chemical rock splitter stuff, both are very interesting techniques that'd i'd love to try out 💯

 

[tim.rose2]

Get a set of 14mm plug and feathers from amazon / ebay and learn how to use them (i.e. following the line of weakness in the rock / spacing / number to use etc.). Much safer and just as effective. It does use a bit more drill battery, but the cost of an extra battery or two is soon lost in buying caps. We've sliced and dices washing machine sized boulders and enlarged too narrow rifts using P&F alone. The advantage, once you've got the hang of it, is that you can make drag tray shape and sized rocks rather than rubble.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I haven't yet used plug & feathers, only because I haven't got any, I am also looking into the chemical rock splitter stuff, both are very interesting techniques that'd i'd love to try out 💯

We have other techniques I dare not mention here. What you use depends on the rock structure. Plug and feathers usually work well but capping relys on a fairly brittle rock type. Carboniferous Limestone is good but for some reason Devoinian Limestone does not easily split. Both methods rely on a good airspace around the target. I can pm you a photo of a good design slide hammer. Plug and feathers are easily obtainable but there is the risk of straying into dodgy websites. Here you see a boulder being reduced with p and f one end has already been removed.

 

[PeteHall]

Plug and feathers are easily obtainable but there is the risk of straying into dodgy websites.

Here's a safe place to buy: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14476332...pgSXQLyRfS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Plug and feathers successfully applied.

 

[JAshley73]

On the subject of inconveniently placed rocks...

I'm reminded of a post made by a friend, where they installed Petzl Pulses (removable bolts) and then rigged a haul systems to move the stubborn rocks. I'm this case, up vertically. But the same could be done horizontally too...

 

[JAshley73]

Plug and feathers are easily obtainable but there is the risk of straying into dodgy websites.

Sincerest thanks for the warning there! 😅

 

[AlexR]

@lumenchild
Jeeeee-sus! That video gives me nightmares and is the reason why I run a capping workshop before (and on) exped.
Please, anyone who reads this and has pesky rocks in digs which need removing, reach out to your local club where there should be at least someone who has managed to keep all fingers for a while (though toes are arguably at a higher risk).

Alternatively Badland or myself (amongst many more I'm sure), I cannot claim to go through hundreds in a day but go through a fair few.
Capping, like many activities, is inherently dangerous. There is equipment and methods you can use to minimise that risk to yourself and those around you. It's well worth doing so.
In my opinion plug and feathers are only suitable for those with a vast reserve of patience, space, and battery power.

Here is an idea why safety specs are an absolute necessity, I've lugged all my kit out of a pretty long cave before, realising I'd forgotten the safety specs on reaching the site. I'd 100% do so again.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

Plug and feathers successfully applied.

wow thats so interesting how do you know where to drill and put the plug and feathers, or is it just put them in a straight line and give it all a good whack, This is something I do look to expand my knowledge in these different methods and I appreciate the advice and good display of how it should look, when done properly.