Author Topic: Elden Hole  (Read 4000 times)

Offline Mark

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Elden Hole
« on: July 12, 2012, 07:57:32 am »
Wendy spotted a copy of this on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320928018734?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3216wt_889

Googled it and found it online

http://archive.org/stream/wideworldmagazin07londuoft#page/354/mode/2up

Not seen it before, no mention of a lower shaft in 1901

Offline Goydenman

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 11:32:28 am »
That is really interesting.

Offline clarey

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 11:59:50 am »
That's an amazing magazine!  If you flick through a bit further there's an article titled "Some pig-sticking experiences in India" - what's not to like  :)

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 12:03:15 pm »
Very interesting - this is a much fuller account of the trips that Baker described in his "Caving - Episodes of Underground Exploration". The first trip, with ropes and no ladder, was in September 1900 but this article was published after the second trip which was at the beginning of 1901.

Offline mmilner

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 01:44:53 pm »
yes fascinating! thanx for posting the link.  8)
Norbert Casteret (Ten Years Under the Earth) and Pierre Chevalier (Subterranean Climbers) were my inspiration to start caving. (And I'm still doing it.) Secretary, Darfar Potholing Club, the Peak District.

Offline MarkC

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2012, 08:38:16 pm »
I can PM you the pdf of the 1770 article by Lloyd of the first descent of Eldon Hole if you haven't already got it..

Offline Anon

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 10:04:00 pm »
When did Elden become Eldon or is there two ways of spelling it (like the proper Gill and romantic Ghyll) and/or when/why did the E become an O?  (I'm only asking out of plain curiousity in naming of features, rather than any scientific or otherwise reasons)

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2012, 11:13:03 pm »
I think that it was just Baker that spelt it 'Elden'.  I have a copy of the third edition of 'On Foot through the Peak' published in 1876 and it was spelt 'Eldon', as it was in the Ainsworth Magazine published in 1842, and 'Peak Scenery' in 1824.

Offline graham

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 08:10:19 am »
I think that it was just Baker that spelt it 'Elden'.

Maybe, but he was a Librarian and therefore right when everybody else was wrong.   :blink:
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Offline langcliffe

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2012, 08:53:59 am »
Looking a little closer, I've noticed that Lloyd called it 'Elden' in 1770, as did Hassel in his 1799 aquatint engraving, and Valentine in 'Picturesque England' in 1880. So it looks as the spellings may have been interchangeable in the nineteenth century at least.

Wikipedia says that  'In 1285 the hill was called Elvedon'.

Offline graham

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2012, 08:59:42 am »
The spelling of names like that varied enormously right up until the 20th century & nobody really thought much about it. However, modern search engines tend not to be that flexible unless someone has programmed all the alternatives in.

What you have just described would be quite sufficient for Wig to list the variants as alternative names in the Cave Registry, had this hole been on Mendip.
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Offline bograt

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 12:05:32 pm »
Burdetts definitive map of 1791 calls it Elden, perhaps its us that's wrong! :) :shrug:
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Offline paul

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 12:39:49 pm »
The spelling of names like that varied enormously right up until the 20th century & nobody really thought much about it.

In addition, some places still have alternative spellings as, for example the village of Youlgreave or Youlgrave, also in Derbyshire.

Also, some places also still retain the original pronounciation despite a change in spelling, such as Derby which used to be spelled "Darby" or "Darbye" in the 17th Century.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 06:04:14 pm »
Maybe it just got spelt wrong! Anyhow who rattled your cage Graham?

Offline bograt

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 06:07:31 pm »


In addition, some places still have alternative spellings as, for example the village of Youlgreave or Youlgrave, also in Derbyshire.

[/quote]

Or even "Pommy"?
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Offline graham

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 06:56:53 pm »
Anyhow who rattled your cage Graham?

 :unsure:

I'm a great admirer of Baker and his mate Kentish, who was killed on the Western Front.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 07:17:33 pm by graham »
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Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 07:03:34 pm »
I always thought the origin was "Elvesden" then Elveden and then Elden etc.
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Offline Roger W

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 09:17:01 pm »
Ah!  Paraffin torches and Bengal lights  -  those were the days!

But does this "Elden" business mean that a certain well-known caving club will have to change its name?
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline SamT

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 11:01:06 pm »


Eldon Caving Club doesn't have the same ring though!!

Offline cavermark

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2012, 09:30:33 am »


Eldon Caving Club doesn't have the same ring though!!

you comparing rings again? - I'd heard strange things about your club!

Offline bograt

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Re: Elden Hole
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2012, 02:14:25 pm »


Eldon Caving Club doesn't have the same ring though!!

you comparing rings again? - I'd heard strange things about your club!

They've always been like that! ;)
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