Author Topic: Are cavers cool?  (Read 4853 times)

Offline Laurie

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2019, 01:43:26 am »
My caving helps support the 'locals' in Mendip.
MNRC

Offline Caver Keith

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2019, 06:11:52 pm »
I found the YouTuber’s comment which started this thread amusing and I fully appreciate that he or she is quite entitled to their opinion. From the initial replies it seems that other cavers share my point of view.

They want caving to seem a bit more dangerous than it really is. Your provocative videos are useful exhibits.

Provocative videos? What am I to make of this? It does seem rather dismissive.
I make videos to satisfy my creative urges. I like experimenting with styles, genres and moods. I also bring to my film making my low threshold of boredom which I hope results in my films being unpredictable, watchable and innovative. All of this means that having produced a film of a particular genre, for example a documentary, I don't really want to produce another one the same, well not for a while anyway. So over the 11 years since I started my YouTube channel I have produced many different styles and genres - documentaries, music videos, promotional videos, gear reviews, pastiches, drama, comedy, factual, spoofs and even a five part mini cliff-hanger series.
I like to think that these might be the reasons why my channel has enjoyed a modest amount of success, but perhaps my achilles heel over the years has always been my warped sense of humour which has been variously described as puerile, childish, twisted, weird, and downright embarrassing.
Of course I’m under no illusion that my videos are universally liked or appreciated. If I had ever been under any misapprehension then my audience (and you) have been quick to dispel the myth.

Provocative? Perhaps, but I fail to see how "Keith’s Cavers", "Hey, Hey, We’re The Dudley", "Searching for the Real Santa Claus", reviewing gear or tempting Chunky through a squeeze with the lure of cake can be seen as making caving "seem a little more dangerous than it really is."

Keith Edwards

Offline droid

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2019, 07:10:26 pm »
He's American..... :lol:
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Groundhog

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2019, 08:30:16 am »
Keith. I think your videos are great. Keep it up.

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2019, 10:23:40 am »
Assuming not everyone who watches your videos are cavers Keith, which is the most popular?  Is it one that with a title like  "Caving is for dead hard people only"? If it is then you can see why Kenilworth is saying that you are a little provocative.  Unless my understanding of provocative as 'to cause reaction' is wrong?

After a quick scan:
"Caving Claustrophobia, kill or cure?" 12 million views (3 years)
"The Vice Ogof y Daren Cilau (Warning: Do NOT watch if Claustrophobic) 2.8 million views (3 years)

Top of the tree though
Thomas and the High speed Train 15 million views (5 years)

I think that you videos have become the benchmark though.  I really like the minimal helmet mounted shots. 




Offline David Rose

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2019, 10:55:00 am »
I love Keith's videos. They convey one thing more than anything else: that caving is fun, and that cavers are fun people to be around. I do get the impression from previous posts that Kenilworth doesn't see things that way. But since none of us know who he is, I could be wrong.   

Offline SimonDontFitDownDraenen

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2019, 12:27:06 am »
Assuming not everyone who watches your videos are cavers Keith, which is the most popular?  Is it one that with a title like  "Caving is for dead hard people only"? If it is then you can see why Kenilworth is saying that you are a little provocative.  Unless my understanding of provocative as 'to cause reaction' is wrong?


Thats just a good way to get views on youtube, clickbaity titles!

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2019, 02:52:00 am »
Keith
I have no criticism of your sense of humor. We all have different tastes and it is obvious that your videos are well liked by a large number of people. I was attempting to answer the question "Are cavers cool?" Depending on your definition of cool, I believe the answer to be no, not inherently so. One of the least attractive traits of cavers, to me, is that they overdramatize what is a fairly ordinary activity. No matter the creative purposes behind your videos, it is undeniable that they do so, that they intend to do so.

The problems with overdramatizing caving are that thrill seekers are attracted and timid people are repulsed, and these are two types of injustice being done to the reality of caves and caving. I want people to like caves for the right reasons, that is, for reasons that will lead them to care for caves. There is still room for lots of variety here. But if cavers want to seem cool they will only attract self-centered people who want to be cool, and who will have little concern for one of the most delicate landscapes they will ever encounter.

Offline kay

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2019, 08:33:46 am »
I really wouldn't say "overdramatising" applies to what I see posted on ukc - if anything, the opposite.

Offline ttxela2

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2019, 08:53:24 am »


The problems with overdramatizing caving are that thrill seekers are attracted and timid people are repulsed,

That is a good point, on the scale of things if you compare caving to mountaineering I'm much more to the Sunday afternoon stroll up Win Hill end than the Summiting K2 end where some people here are. I often look at videos and think, nah, that looks a little much for me - but perhaps the reality would not be so bad?

Offline Caver Keith

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2019, 08:58:23 pm »
Thanks Groundhog, Ian and David for your kind words, and to Kenilworth I guess we will never see eye to eye. I do not accept that my videos over dramatise caving. I may use dramatic music and a few of my titles may be provocative but that’s as far as it goes. I know that my main audience is non-cavers which means that when I publish a serious or arty caving video I lose subscribers, but when I post a ‘provocative’ video the subscriber count and views go up. It is said that there is no such thing as bad publicity and the 'provocative' videos have bought me some modest success which means that I now have a core audience of cavers who by and large appreciate my work, but of course I’m never going to please everyone.

However it's not just members of the caving community who express reservations about my films. My most successful video ever (15.5 million views) has nothing to do with caving. Thomas and the High Speed Train was filmed on my garden railway. Now for those of you who think my caving videos are provocative then you may be surprised to know that the Thomas series of videos have proved to be even more controversial with model railway enthusiasts. They have led to me being accused of bringing railway modelling into disrepute. Still I had the last laugh. I used the comments posted on a garden railway forum to make Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends Discuss G Scale using Thomas and his friends to voice the dialogue from the forum - Creature Comforts style. Result - 3.85 million views.  :)

Offline JasonC

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2019, 09:50:13 pm »
Quote
They have led to me being accused of bringing railway modelling into disrepute.

Surely, such a thing is impossible?

Offline droid

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2019, 09:50:31 pm »
The railway modelling forums/pages can be savage Keith.

You get the number of rivets wrong..... :spank: :spank: :spank:
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2019, 01:02:03 am »
The fact that a "serious" caving video loses you subscribers may be an indication that caving isn't cool...

I don't guess we can see eye to eye since I can't imagine valuing publicity or an audience. We have very different ideas of success.

In honesty I have watched and enjoyed several of your videos, and believe them to be extremely well done despite our differences in taste. The provocative titles and the use of the cave as a setting for contrived hijinks have led me to quit watching.

Offline 2xw

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Re: Are cavers cool?
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2019, 11:43:38 am »
I can't imagine valuing publicity or an audience

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

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