Author Topic: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info  (Read 2887 times)

Offline tobyk

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Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« on: December 08, 2019, 08:33:10 am »
Heading to Hell Hole near Trollers Gill one evening next week.
Has anyone got any useful information/beta about this pot? Is it on bolts/spits/naturals, pitch lengths, passages at the bottom etc
This has been discussed before on the forums, but seems fairly dated now. I’ve also seen the news paper cutting ‘topo’ from 1896, which is actually quite useful.

Thanks,
Toby

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2019, 08:55:15 am »
There were cavers associated with the Leeds scene involved for a while in a bit of work down there a few years back. They did improvements to the rigging (not P anchors though, as I recall). They had a very useful deviation set up at the far side of the shaft at the level of the ledgy area partway down, which was very helpful. I can't just remember exactly how it was set up for rigging ropes when I was down there at the time but I recall that the hang of the rope was fine. Some of those involved are users of this forum, so you'll hopefully get a better answer direct from them.

There is no great length of passage from the bottom of the main pitch but it is an interesting place; probably ideal for an evening visit.

But . . . it responds very quickly to rain and can get nasty fairly fast. The forecast this coming week isn't great; best pick the optimum time to strike (i.e. a falling water scenario, so the worst that can happen is that you get repulsed). Good luck.


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 09:05:18 am »
P.S. - your post prompted me to look up when I was last there - it was during a very dry spell in the summer of 2013. On that day, all the water falling down the main pitch was sinking into the pool at the pitch base. There is a sump here, which is blocked after a body length but because it's at the top of a slope down (i.e. the normal way on from the pitch base) it would siphon out in the right conditions, then it could be dug. Such conditions will not apply this week! But it would be worth noting (and posting here) whether you think much water is sinking in this sump in the higher water conditions you're likely to encounter. I suspect not but it's all useful information. (It may be so spray-lashed that you can't really assess it anyway.)

The main point is that the pool at the base of the main pitch is a downstream sump and a potential way of bypassing the various downstream impasses elsewhere in the cave.

Offline tobyk

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2019, 04:51:54 pm »
Thanks very much for the invaluable information Pitlamp. If the trip is a success, I will take a look at the downstream sump and let you know.
There’s definitely a lot of potential in that area, with very little discovered cave passage so it seems.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2019, 07:35:35 pm »
Just a little bit more information, to avoid possible confusion, the downstream sump I'm on about is the spray-lashed puddle directly under the waterfall at the very bottom of the pitch. It may not be entirely obvious in wet conditions - or it might appear at first glance to be just a small pool or even an upstream sump. It's only in drought that it swallows all of the water descending the shaft - then you can tell it really is a downstream sump.

When you've unclipped at the pitch base, if you walk off downslope, the stream disappears off on the left after 20 m or so into a very obvious downstream sump pool. But this sump is only about 7 m long and you can get to the far side of it by taking a dry passage on the left a few metres beyond.

You meet the stream in a tiny chamber flowing from left to right into an immature passage, The Lancashire Caving & Climbing Club spent several weekends trying to chisel this open in the mid 70s, without success. I think it's partially blocked with gravel now but a tight squeeze was passed here to reach the top of a small drop, choked less than a metre down. If the water was dammed here and then released, a loud waterfall could be heard. However, this unattainable waterfall may have been entering the Cambridge Uni extensions, at lower level, gained by bailing a tight duck in a different place which led to a 15 m pitch - so there may be little point in giving the LCCC dig further attention now we have an idea what may be beyond it.

The destination of any water sinking into the small sump pool directly under the main wet shaft you've descended is unknown - and hence is of interest as a possible way on in the direction of the risings in Trollers Gill.

Whilst I'm on with this brain dump, the big area of limestone to the east of Trollers Gill (opposite side from Hell Hole) also has potential. Mines in the Burhill area are recorded as causing the water emerging from Nape Well Cave to flow murky. This cave also ends in a shallow sump, which has been pushed very hard by CDG members over recent years, reaching the point where further progress was pretty much impossible by diving. But this sump could also be emptied in drought (probably by pumping, rather than siphoning). The way on is a partially backfilled rift with small airspace above it on the left, just before the end. The rift could be dug fairly easily if the water was got rid of.

Offline ian.p

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2019, 11:03:52 pm »
Hi Toby
Sam Allshorne and I made some substantial extensions in the cave (redemption series) a few years ago. Are you looking for projects or a sport trip?
The first pitch is not a good place to be in wet weather. There are deviations rigged on nuts that will help get you out of the worst of the water but it's still very unpleasent to potentially fatal in very wet weather. The duck is more of a muddy puddle these days and the formally very tight squeeze to get to the second pitch is significantly more accommodating now. I can PM you some more info tomorrow when I'm more awake!

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2019, 08:13:31 am »
Thanks Ian.p; I'd hoped you'd contribute.   :thumbsup:

Offline tobyk

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2019, 01:04:11 pm »
Thanks both for all of this fantastic and very useful information. Very much an evenings tourist trip at the moment, but fairly interested in making a project somewhere up there, being relatively close to home and practically road side. Have had a look in some of the other shakes holes up there previously, one of which is about 200m east of hell hole and has about 10m of passage, ending in a break down chamber - could definitely hear water underneath, although would require a lot of work to get through (beyond my skill set at present).
The nuts for the deviations, presumably these are climbing wires, are they left in situ? I’ll bring my own anyway.
Planning on going Wednesday evening now, although the river Aire was brim full this morning, so will very much be making an assessment whether to proceed on the day.

Cheers,
Toby

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2019, 01:35:16 pm »
Do you live next to the Aire, or see it regularly? Just useful to know as I mat be interested in picking your brains about it, very occasionally! Could you send a PM? Ta.

Offline ian.p

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2019, 09:12:43 pm »
Hi Toby ive PMd you

Offline Zen Monkey

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 08:39:01 am »
ian.p
Many thanks for the information you've given us!
Regards
Zen Monkey

Offline skippy

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 03:25:28 pm »
Hi Toby,
Pitlamp included notes on Hell Hole in the 112 edition of the Record. I would imagine its available to download from the members section of the website.

While I'm here, I will not be free tomorrow eve however, I suspect it will be too wet anyway.
We will arrange summat in the New Year if you want.
 

Offline tobyk

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 04:54:15 pm »
Thanks all for your input! Definitely not going this week now, absolutely tanking it down here currently.
A trip will be done soon though!

Offline Redmire

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2019, 09:20:30 am »
Ian, is the information on the extensions readily available?  I’d be interested to see what’s down there.

Thanks

Offline Zen Monkey

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 03:21:30 pm »
Forgetting my manners on this one. TobyK and I had a preliminary trip down Hell Hole at the beginning of the month before the bad weather set in. Just to say, many thanks to Pitlamp and ian.p for the very much appreciated information and comments.  A short visit for us but we'll definitely be back later this year to go further( if it ever stops raining)  Even with two deviations and an off-centre Y hang the first pitch was very wet! All credit to the ULSA team who were pushing this system.

Offline s_allshorn

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2020, 04:59:26 pm »
Descent 223 2011 pg9. You need to make sure the duck/sump drain is open you can't do anything on the upstream side, there is a small hole into a rift that could easily be blocked with silt or a few pebbles. You may also need to remove some silt from the floor of this section.

The Pearly Gate is harder for those with long legs. The squeeze to the top of the second pitch is also snug.   

Offline tobyk

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Re: Hell hole - Trollers Gill Info
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2020, 06:53:35 pm »
The first pitch was very wet in relatively dry weather, I can see how it can be a death trap if it’s remotely wet - thanks for the warnings.
The downstream sump was overflowing, and was impossible to tell how much water might be sinking there, it was very spray lashed.
We weren’t too confident with the way on to the second pitch at the junction as both left and right eventually seemed quite restricted. Thinking about it the crawl right might need the floor excavating, as it just seemed like an ever narrowing tube at the time.

 

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