Giant's East Canal

[thehungrytroglobite]

Been seeing Giant's pop up a bit on here recently, so thought I'd stick my latest trip report of my trip to the East Canal here in case anyone wants a read, because info about that part of the hole seems a little more limited online:

https://overgroundvunderground.blogspot.com/2020/09/giants-hole-east-canal.html

would be interested in helping out sort out the rigging in the filthy five at some point so we can go further next time!

[Goydenman]

really great write up. East canal can be so awe inspiring with that deep coloured water

[benshannon]

Really good trip report. I am really intrigued by East canal now

[DCA]

Can any of you folks help here? DCA are currently revising and updating the Peak District Caving Info website and as part of that project we're revising and updating all the 'Micro Guides' for all the main caves - these were originally produced mostly by Shaun Puckering at Hitch & Hike, with a few contributions from others. All the Peak and Speedwell ones have been updated. The original guides for Giants Hole were split into three parts, and Part 3 was listed in Part 1 as: 'The  lower reaches - Eating House to East Canal'. However, after much searching of everyone's archives and then some further enquiries, it transpires that Part 3 was never actually written!

All of us are either not knowledgeable enough or too busy to undertake this, due to many other commitments, as it would require another visit or two to lock it all down - the survey is complex in these parts and a written description to accompany it would be very useful indeed. But seeing as the area may be getting more attention soon, could anyone possibly help here?

Parts 1 and 2 can be downloaded from the current PDCI website here to get an idea of the format and level of detail required - not a lot really. But it does need to be accurate!

https://peakdistrictcaving.info/home/the-caves/castleton/giants-hole

Thanks

Phil Wolstenholme
Cave Registry Secretary

[Pitlamp]

There's a pretty good description of most of that area already available in Dave Elliott's excellent  "Caves of Northern Derbyshire" guide part 2 (Giants Oxlow system). Obviously anything found since would need to be included but, to save work, would that make a good basis, at least?

[tdobson]

But seeing as the area may be getting more attention soon, could anyone possibly help here?

I probably can have a go. I can't promise a timescale, but I went looking for part 3 only to have to figure it out. Nothing wrong with that of course, but there's no reason more people couldn't see some of these areas.

I've been writing a Bagshawe Cavern microguide (have a look at the one you already have - this is better!)

It needs editing/clearing up - it's currently written with a slightly different audience in mind and hasn't had any proof reading, but in principle it's there, and I'll clean it up if you're interested.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rJLVAE4iZ44GPk8_CVS8VHw-4KXlgKTMpJ0TyLtXi_Y/edit?usp=sharing

[DCA]

It would be great if you could have a go - it's not desperately urgent, but it would be nice to get something up when the new site goes live - typically we can't give you any idea on that yet as it's still being tested, but 'soon'! The guides do need to be fairly 'dry' descriptions so that nothing is ambiguous, especially down there, so pitch/passage/chamber names are very useful wherever possible.

As for the Bagshawe one, yours certainly is better than the existing one! But it would need some work to bring it onto line with the others - though I appreciate it was written for a different audience, and the bare bones are there. Though if I'm not mistaken the Lower Series (beyond the bottom of the Dungeon and/or Agony Crawl isn't described? The description in COPD is pretty good to be honest, and I suspect much of this could be adapted to suit.

[tdobson]

It would be great if you could have a go - it's not desperately urgent, but it would be nice to get something up when the new site goes live - typically we can't give you any idea on that yet as it's still being tested, but 'soon'! The guides do need to be fairly 'dry' descriptions so that nothing is ambiguous, especially down there, so pitch/passage/chamber names are very useful wherever possible.

yes - obviously the audience I've written for before benefits from the "wetter" description the better.

Though if I'm not mistaken the Lower Series (beyond the bottom of the Dungeon and/or Agony Crawl isn't described?

Correct - currently it's a main series description. I probably could create a lower series description, though just like Geology Pot/East Canal, it probably needs a couple more trips (that I'm likely to do anyway) before I feel particularly confident writing it.

As for the Bagshawe one, yours certainly is better than the existing one! But it would need some work to bring it onto line with the others - though I appreciate it was written for a different audience, and the bare bones are there.

Yeah absolutely. I didn't write that description with the goal to simply inform, it was to inform, advise and entertain. Clearly I can cut it down and probably add more passage names etc.
Whilst I'm here, I just wanted to acknowledge how valuable I've found TSG's trip report archive (in general, not necessarily for these two caves). It's fantastic, and I've been very grateful for it! Happy to pay it forward where I can!

[pwhole]

I'm in my normal guise now. Thanks for the comments on the TSG trip report archive, as that's another of my jobs - though I'm woefully behind schedule at present. We do a lot more trips than that, but I've only put the really good ones up. Thankfully lockdown has killed most of our trips, which gives me time to catch up - eventually! Still smashing out other docs at the moment where I can.

I just saw your trip report on the Lower Series - it's ironic really that there isn't a good description about, given I've read JW Puttrell's trip report of this section, from 1904 or something. He moaned about not having any kneepads on the section between the Lake and the sumps. I would too. Seriously though, the Eldon are being a bit quiet here, and given the amount of diving trips done in the past, I'm sure someone could recite a description of the Lower Series in their sleep. But I do appreciate we're all rather busy. I think at the moment the easiest solution would be to use the COPD description, as it's perfectly adequate and there haven't been any major changes or extensions since then that I know of.

[SamT]

 

[pwhole]

Don't feel bad

[tdobson]

I just saw your trip report on the Lower Series - it's ironic really that there isn't a good description about, given I've read JW Puttrell's trip report of this section, from 1904 or something. He moaned about not having any kneepads on the section between the Lake and the sumps. I would too.

Yeah, part of me would like a description to exist of all the bits at the bottom of Bagshawe Lower (and I've no doubt they exist in someone's paper journal somewhere offline), and then another part of me is enjoying the element of exploring it from the survey and learning about it from exploring it. It's less efficient, but more fun. I'll probably break and ask questions here at some point, but for the time being it seems to be enough for me.

I used a BRCC report from ~2011 for most of the main route description for there and a few other things I dug up. Would be great if there was a miniguide for it, and for the "main" bit, I probably could write one in time.

[A_Northerner]

Yeah, part of me would like a description to exist of all the bits at the bottom of Bagshawe Lower (and I've no doubt they exist in someone's paper journal somewhere offline), and then another part of me is enjoying the element of exploring it from the survey and learning about it from exploring it. It's less efficient, but more fun. I'll probably break and ask questions here at some point, but for the time being it seems to be enough for me.

Descriptions of caves should be written so that someone with a specific goal in mind will be able to find the bit of cave they're aiming for - but if you really want to explore you can always just... not look at a description. A quick look at the Bagshawe survey should reveal that it's gonna be pretty hard to get properly lost in there (especially with half of it gated off *shakes fist at EPC*, and the other half accessible by an obvious pitch) so for a proper adventure just go in and try to find key sites unguided. They're always the best trips!

[pwhole]

Yeah, I have to say that I've only ever seen half of Bagshawe too. I did get to go through one gate once with Sam, but that's it. The more I look at the survey the more I'd like to see the rest. Big hint...

[Rob]

Umm, just ask for the code and your in. No big deal guys..... 

[A_Northerner]

Umm, just ask for the code and your in. No big deal guys..... 

Once I've finished having a snoop round all the other EPC sites. You're discovering them faster than I can explore!

[SamT]

I've been writing a Bagshawe Cavern microguide (have a look at the one you already have - this is better!)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rJLVAE4iZ44GPk8_CVS8VHw-4KXlgKTMpJ0TyLtXi_Y/edit?usp=sharing

As you return, you can if you like follow the route to the upstream sumps. This is a long long long ass miserable wet crawl over rubble to nowhere.

I take issue with this!!     

I'm setting some history homework on the subject of "Paternity's Fault" !! 

[tdobson]

I've been writing a Bagshawe Cavern microguide (have a look at the one you already have - this is better!)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rJLVAE4iZ44GPk8_CVS8VHw-4KXlgKTMpJ0TyLtXi_Y/edit?usp=sharing

As you return, you can if you like follow the route to the upstream sumps. This is a long long long ass miserable wet crawl over rubble to nowhere.

I take issue with this!!     

I'm setting some history homework on the subject of "Paternity's Fault" !! 

I'll go look it up. Seriously, is there anything up there worth looking at? If I crawl up there for miles and miles of gravel and cold water (which is as far as I got last time!) will I be satisfied with anything more than emptying gravel and water out of my wellies and kneepads? 

[tdobson]

My first trip up the Bagshawe upstream sumps was with some first time beginners - whom had requested nothing low so I foolish didn't bring kneepads. They forced me to follow them up the minging upstream sump crawl before wallowing in the water whilst I was forced to play photographer.

I suspect with kneepads and a more confident crew, it'd be worth a wander.

[pwhole]

I take issue with this!!     

I'm setting some history homework on the subject of "Paternity's Fault" !! 

It's OK, I went up there last year when the water was low on a TSG trip. Thought I'd wandered into Peak Cavern

[tdobson]

It's OK, I went up there last year when the water was low on a TSG trip. Thought I'd wandered into Peak Cavern

The famed Bagshawe-Peak through trip!