Author Topic: Potosi mine Derbyshire  (Read 1359 times)

Offline History Trog

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2021, 02:47:36 pm »
I should have mentioned that there was another Potosi Mine on Carsington Pastures. They are both mentioned in the searchable version of my Barmasters Calendar as done by the late Steve Thompson but with no useful info on the Ible one.

Regarding your query about the Matlock book, research is effectively finished. During the pandemic, my brain kept hanging upside down, which apparently enabled it to solve even the most intractable problems, such as the location of Ashbury Crofts Mine (the site of the first pumping engine in the Derbyshire ore field). Jim was so desperate to know that he put a query in the pdmhs newsletter c.2001 but I warned him that only a real expert historian could find the answer. It took me 19 years. Just need to get it published now but everything is difficult with the current paralysis. I would not want any royalties from the book.

Going back to Potosi at Ible, I do not seem to have the relevant Tithe Award, which would help with the field names. I never get round that area since the 1980s - such an unpleasant walk along the Via Gellia with there being no pavement.

Offline Lampwick

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2021, 02:58:06 pm »
Hint taken ...

View of Potosi Mine area generated from LiDAR model. Looking NE, 45 degrees downward.  Yellow marker pins are Ible Adit (bottom of image) and Chance Level.
Are we nearly there yet?

Offline Brains

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2021, 03:20:36 pm »
So Wood Lane runs up past the quarry and the Via Gellia is across the bottom of the image? Just trying not to confuse myself...

Offline Brains

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2021, 03:33:10 pm »

Regarding your query about the Matlock book, research is effectively finished. During the pandemic, my brain kept hanging upside down, which apparently enabled it to solve even the most intractable problems, such as the location of Ashbury Crofts Mine (the site of the first pumping engine in the Derbyshire ore field). Jim was so desperate to know that he put a query in the pdmhs newsletter c.2001 but I warned him that only a real expert historian could find the answer. It took me 19 years. Just need to get it published now but everything is difficult with the current paralysis. I would not want any royalties from the book.

Are PDMHS able to do it as a special bulletin or book? Even an e-book would be good to have...
Me? I just want to read it then get out and look at stuff for myself!  ;D

Offline markpot

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2021, 03:40:05 pm »
Brains, that's correct.

Many thanks History Trog and Lampwick for the useful info. I will try and piece this all together tommorow.

History Trog, you may recall, some time ago ,i contacted you via Aditnow regarding Rabit hole. i have spent alot of time exploring the area above and below ground from Rabit hole across the Geoege Hall and foxhole, as AR mentioned there are alot of uncapped holes in this area. It is a very interesting area. Some of the working are in great shape, some not so great.

 Hopefully i will have a bit more to add tommorow. :thumbsup:

 

Offline Brains

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2021, 04:48:07 pm »
Thanks for the confirmation  ;D
Hopefully attached is a screen grab of the same area as the LIDAR from google earth for comparison

Offline History Trog

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2021, 07:20:18 pm »
Thanks everyone for your efforts. The scan and aerial view show the area of Potosi vein but not what I presume to be the course of the sough in Ible Wood off to the right, as marked on Jim's map.

As regards pdmhs and my book, I was told it was too large for a special bulletin (and it is much longer now because so much new information has come in) although I have worked hard to precis it - there is no waffle in it. Also pdmhs are struggling a bit with the death of Steve Thompson who was a computer expert. There is a lot of work to prepare something like this for publication. I could always pay for publication myself but it is not ideal - self editing is never recommended and distribution is very difficult. It'll all work out one day. It was so fortunate that it was not published a couple of years ago because it would have been rendered obsolete by the new information almost at once.

Returning to Potosi, it is not mentioned in Book 52 which covers the 1740s unless it then went by a different name. It is recorded in the ore accounts for 1793-4 - see DRO Bag Coll 587(43). The barmaster's ore accounts for Middleton-by_Wirksworth Liberty do not start until 1848 and they indicate very little ore at Potosi.

Offline History Trog

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2021, 07:37:05 pm »
This will have to be my final word for today - have been digging the veg patch and am knackered.

The notes of Professor Andy Wood on his National Archives research include the following item about mining in Ible Wood in 1678 that I found very interesting. It mentions Ralph Greatorex who later pioneered the use of gunpowder in mining, as related in the article that I did with Jim.

Reference:   DL 4/120/1678/1
Description:   
Short title: Attorney General of the Duchy of Lancaster v Hopkinson.

Plaintiffs: Attorney General [at the relation of the Earl of Northampton].

Defendants: William Hopkinson.

Documents: depositions concerning the lot and cope in Ible, Wirksworth, Derbyshire.

Taken in 1678.

Deponents for plaintiffs: William Wigley of Middleton, miner, aged 57, deposed that he works a mine in Edmund Gretrax's land in Ible; John Downe of Bonsall, yeoman, aged 55, deposed that he works a mine in Edmund Gretrax's land in Ible; William Stone of Bonsall, miner, aged 4 score and 17 years [97 years old], whose memory of Ible goes back his whole life [to 1581] deposed that he gave up his works in Ible 30 years ago due to the opposition of his master Hopkinson; Thomas Abell of Bonsall, miner, aged 60, deposed that he worked in the mine in Ible 20 years ago and others mined there 25 years ago. When he was threatened by Hopkinson he was supported by Gell who told him that he should continue to work the lead mine as he had a thousand pounds to spend with Mr Hopkinson to vindicate and justify the miners cause according to custom; Richard Smith of Ible, webster, aged 60, [lists men who held mines in Ible]; John Egginton of Ible, husbandman, aged 47, deposed that he has known several women broke the ground and got ore in a pasture called Ible wood; Henry White of Bonsall, miner, aged 47, deposed that mines had been worked in the 1640s by Robert and Ralph Gretrax and Anthony Bryan. He had found ore there 25 years ago but not much, 'nothing but clay and the old man' [T'Owd Man, the collective spirit of earlier miners]. Mr George Hopkinson had threatened to 'cast down' a piece of ore on William Stone who was working in the mine but was prevented from doing so by Thomas Mart 'who wrested' [who wrestled] it out of his hand; Thomas Woodinis, formerly sworn; Thomas Spenser of Ible, miner and constable for Ible, aged 50; Edward Butler of Ible, yeoman, aged 46; Thomas lea of Ible, husbandman, aged 47, deposed that he has been the constable of Ible twice and that the post is chosen every other year. [He lists those who held dovegangs in the Ible mines]; Anne Eyley of Shottle, widow, aged 72, deposed that she lived in Ible for 32 years. Her mother inherited land in Ible from her grandfather. Mrs Anne Hopkinson, wife of Anthony Hopkinson, was her godmother; William Smedley of Hopton, miner, aged 45; Henry Hoawley of Middleton, miner, aged 55; Anthony White of Bonsall, miner, aged 55, deposed that Anthony Hopkinson had warned them to 'worke their at their pill' [work there at their peril]. Henry Smith replied 'that he hoped they had good right to worke there'; John Creswell of Middleton, yeoman, aged 56; Anthony Gell of Middleton, yeoman, aged 60; Elizabeth Sladen of Wirksworth, widow, aged 40, deposed that her husband, John Sladen, was a barmaster and that he was literate. She herself 'can read written hand very well and write it her selfe'. After his death she kept his 'books and wrytinges' [books and writings] including his lot and cope accounts for Ible. [Accounts were presented at court as evidence]; Thomas Gell of Middleton, miner, aged 32; Thomas Spenser of Middleton, miner, aged 50; Edward Hutchinson of Hopton, yeoman, aged 53, deposed that he knew John Sladen well and often employed Sladen to write for him.

Deponents for defendants: Thomas Parker of Hopton, gentleman, aged 58; Richard Buxton of Carsington, gentleman, aged 68, deposed that in 1641 and at other times Hopkinson had prevented Middleton miners from working in Ible; William Stone, formerly examined; Margaret Pedley, wife of William pedley of Aldwark, aged 60; Henry Buxton of Brassington, miner, aged 50; John Statham of Tansley, gentleman, aged 73; Thomas Woodwins of Bonsall, miner, aged 60 years and more, deposed that John Killhare and Thomas Needham were ejected by Hopkinson and Henry Buxton and were threatened; Anthony Fearne of Ible, miner, aged 30 years and more; William Longden of Ible, miner, aged 44; Edmund Gretrax of Ible, yeoman, aged 77; William Hopkinson of Wirksworth, gentleman, aged 42, deposed that in 1650 when John Killhare and Thomas Needham dug a mine John Creswell, the deputy barmaster, told Hopkinon he would measure any lead got by his own measure and smelt it at his own mill; Adam Hopkinson of Wirksworth, gentleman, aged 34.

Note:   This catalogue entry was created by Dr Hannah Robb and Professor Andy Wood, in a trial of the potential reuse of academic research notes, funded by the Arts and Humanities Research Council in 2017-2018
Date:   1678
Held by:   The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:   Not Public Record(s)

Online AR

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2021, 09:01:47 pm »
Thanks everyone for your efforts. The scan and aerial view show the area of Potosi vein but not what I presume to be the course of the sough in Ible Wood off to the right, as marked on Jim's map.

As regards pdmhs and my book, I was told it was too large for a special bulletin (and it is much longer now because so much new information has come in) although I have worked hard to precis it - there is no waffle in it. Also pdmhs are struggling a bit with the death of Steve Thompson who was a computer expert. There is a lot of work to prepare something like this for publication. I could always pay for publication myself but it is not ideal - self editing is never recommended and distribution is very difficult. It'll all work out one day. It was so fortunate that it was not published a couple of years ago because it would have been rendered obsolete by the new information almost at once.

Returning to Potosi, it is not mentioned in Book 52 which covers the 1740s unless it then went by a different name. It is recorded in the ore accounts for 1793-4 - see DRO Bag Coll 587(43). The barmaster's ore accounts for Middleton-by_Wirksworth Liberty do not start until 1848 and they indicate very little ore at Potosi.

PDMHS council agreed several years back that we would publish one way or another - if the finished article is too large for even a double bulletin, then we can look at putting it out as a book. In the latter case we'd go for subscriptions, as was done with Jim's magnum opus as this is a good way of gauging the print run, and we think there would be some interest from the Friends of the Pavilion group too. Don't worry about layout of the final publication - both myself and pwhole have the software and the skills to do it (though I don't have the spare time that Steve did) but we can get it to publishable quality befitting your many years of hard work.

As regards the Ible tithe award, I started looking at it when I got interested in Chance Mine and  I've got it partially transcribed but need to go back to the DRO and finish the job! Then I'll need to fit the field names to the tithe map...

Lampwick  - thanks for posting the lidar, it shows the quarry infrastructure up really well as well as the mining to the east - unfinished business for us there and I need to finish writing up the quarry then check the owner's OK with it being published in Observations & Discoveries!
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Brains

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2021, 09:08:24 pm »
Put me down for a copy, looking forward to it already  ;D

Offline History Trog

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2021, 06:25:05 pm »
Obviously, the Matlock book would be best put out by pdmhs and I am not disposed to be difficult or to want royalties so we should be able to sort something out when circumstances permit.

Offline pwhole

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2021, 07:16:27 pm »
(though I don't have the spare time that Steve did)

I hope you're not implying that I do. I'm not retired! But I'm sure I'll be able to help in some fashion, as it would be good to get it out at last  :clap2:

As for obsolescence, that's inevitable technically, but I suspect it'll take anyone else a long time to find anything more useful than what will be included here.

Offline ttxela2

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2021, 09:08:45 pm »
Put me down for a copy, looking forward to it already  ;D

Me too of course  :thumbsup:

Offline undead crow

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2021, 11:08:08 am »
Put me down for a copy, looking forward to it already  ;D

Me too of course  :thumbsup:

add me to the list too  ;D :)

Offline History Trog

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2021, 04:36:07 pm »
It's very gratifying to see that people are enthusiastic. For such a specialist publication, it is difficult to assess potential sales so I guess AR is right to say that subscription is the best way forward with it. A few years ago, I happened to meet Andrew Pugh on top of the Heights of Abraham and mentioned to him what good progress I had made researching his Nestus mines but it did not seem to impress him, which was rather disconcerting.

Could do with some better photos of surface features and I had hoped to get round Matlock before leaves opened, while vistas were still clear, but the continuing lockdown has stymied that. Am not much of a photographer at all - Andy Hayes used to oblige in that direction.

Offline pwhole

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2021, 04:41:22 pm »

Could do with some better photos of surface features and I had hoped to get round Matlock before leaves opened, while vistas were still clear, but the continuing lockdown has stymied that. Am not much of a photographer at all - Andy Hayes used to oblige in that direction.

I am - I'll do it. But you'll have to show me where they are ;)

Offline History Trog

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2021, 06:48:07 pm »
I'd be glad of that Phil - having seen your website, I appreciate the quality of your photos. We'll just have to wait for this interminable lockdown to end.

Offline Tripod

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2021, 10:36:38 am »
Please put me down for a copy.

Online AR

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Re: Potosi mine Derbyshire
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2021, 11:00:07 am »
Please put me down for a copy.

Guys,  please wait until we're at the point of publication or calling for subscriptions? Right now there's nothing agreed or set up, notification  is will most likely be done through the PDMHS website.
Dirty old mines need love too....

 

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