Author Topic: Marker Tape  (Read 10419 times)

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2007, 01:37:07 pm »
Humans have been using caves for millions of years. When will our presence be accepted as a natural process in the evolution of the cave system...  :shrug:

When another species takes over the planet, since the terms 'artifical' and 'man-made' were invented by humans to distinguish Man's influence on the planet from those of other factors.


Offline Elaine

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2007, 05:11:29 pm »
Humans have been using caves for millions of years. When will our presence be accepted as a natural process in the evolution of the cave system...  :shrug:

Millions?  :-\

Homo sapiens have been around for about 250 000 yrs and the Homo genus for about 2 million years. Ignore me, I am just being boring and informative!
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Offline graham

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2007, 05:48:51 pm »
Humans have been using caves for millions of years. When will our presence be accepted as a natural process in the evolution of the cave system...  :shrug:

Millions?  :-\

Homo sapiens have been around for about 250 000 yrs and the Homo genus for about 2 million years. Ignore me, I am just being boring and informative!

Ah, but when did they first start using caves? ;)
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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2007, 07:28:43 pm »
Probably before we even evolved to the point of being 'homo' at all.

There is nothing remarkable about animals in general using caves - wouldn't be at all surprised to find that there were specialised dinosaurs that adapted to life in caves - 'speleosaurus'.

Offline Hughie

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2007, 07:44:30 pm »
Humans have been using caves for millions of years. When will our presence be accepted as a natural process in the evolution of the cave system...  :shrug:

Millions?  :-\

Homo sapiens have been around for about 250 000 yrs and the Homo genus for about 2 million years. Ignore me, I am just being boring and informative!

Ah, but when did they first start using caves? ;)

When it rained, I imagine.

Offline Iain Barker

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2007, 04:34:30 pm »
 IN REPLY TO MARK, DUNC ETC:

 I INSTIGATED THE NEW TAPING AT ASHFORD BLACK MARBLE MINE.

 NOW YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS SO I'LL KEEP IT   
 VERY SIMPLE.

 UNSIGHTLY TAPE = MINE OPEN TO CAVERS

 NO TAPE = MINE CLOSED BY LANDOWNER

 ALSO ALL THE LATHKILL SITES, HOLME BANK AND LOADS OF OTHER CAVES AND   
 MINES OWNED BY CHATSWORTH WILL BE CLOSED IF WE DO NOT ABIDE BY THE 
 AGREEMENT IN PLACE AT THIS TIME. DO YOU REALLY WANT THIS?

 AT TIMES IT'S A REAL PAIN IN THE ARSE DRAGGING YOURSELF OUT IN THE RAIN 
 AFTER WORK TO WELD UP A GATE OR DRIVE A 50 MILE ROUND TRIP TO CALM DOWN
 A FARMER WHO HAS CLOSED THE CAVES ON HIS LAND BECAUSE SOME FOOL
 ANNOYED HIM. SPENDING THREE YEARS ON THE NEW GUIDEBOOK FOR BUGGER-ALL
 CAN BE A BIND AT TIMES TOO. ON THE FLIP-SIDE, SHOOTING YOUR MOUTH OFF
 WITHOUT KNOWING (OR CARING ABOUT) THE FACTS TAKES NEITHER TIME NOR
 INTELLECT DOES IT. A BIT OF INSTANT INTERNET INFAMY.

 I'M USUALLY ABOUT IN THE PEAK, IF ANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT OUT
 FACE TO FACE, YOU CAN FIND ME IF YOU REALLY WANT TO.

IAIN BARKER
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Offline finster

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2007, 05:02:00 pm »
Hear hear and well put, couldn't be any clearer! Sometimes its unavoidable to have to tape, and we just have to accept it! I'd rather have an open cave with tape etc than a closed cave!
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Offline Anon

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2007, 05:06:57 pm »
Was your Caps-lock stuck?

Quote
ON THE FLIP-SIDE, SHOOTING YOUR MOUTH OFF WITHOUT KNOWING (OR CARING ABOUT) THE FACTS TAKES NEITHER TIME NOR
 INTELLECT DOES IT. A BIT OF INSTANT INTERNET INFAMY.
Someone can only know the facts when they are given them in some form or another. I don't recall seeing anything in the article in Descent stating that this work was done by request of the landowner (perhaps that fact should have been presented with the article?). In fact the only mention of the landowner comes at the end and whilst I am aware there have been issues with this landowner in the past I didn't realise they imposed such draconian measures.

As I said in a previous post if anyone bothered to read it - if it means the mine stays open then I guess we have to put up with it, doesn't mean I like it though.

Infamy eh, nah, this is a forum where people voice their opinions, we don't all agree and it can get interesting and sometimes heated, thats the way it goes..

Offline mrodoc

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2007, 05:12:33 pm »
Watching that speleo avalon presentation reminds what Otter Hole once looked like - and I expect current visitors don't even realise what has been lost!

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2007, 05:48:39 pm »
Iain, you're doing sterling work. Ignore the arses if you can - there's a lot of `em around though.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2007, 05:51:45 pm »
Was your Caps-lock stuck?

I guess he was SHOUTING on purpose. Doesn't look like it's working though.

Offline Anon

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2007, 06:26:29 pm »
Quote
I guess he was SHOUTING on purpose.
I did wonder if that was the case but considering the entire post was in caps I figured not as it seems rather pointless to shout about everything... A few CHOICE words to SHOUT about is a much better approach IMHO.

Offline Elaine

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2007, 06:51:21 pm »
Ignore the arses if you can....

You can't ignore mine - it is huge!!
Wot tiny writing!

Offline Mark

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2007, 06:53:16 pm »
The original moan was more about the nanny state and how we have to be protected from danger all the time, than about keeping access open to this specific site,

Only today in the paper there is an abandoned school in Midlothian where the lights have been kept on at night so that intruders dont hurt themselves in the dark,

As dunc said no mention of request by landowner in article?

Perhaps a sub forum on uk caving should be started so that any access issues can be made known to all,

As for being an arse, if I have an opinion it will be voiced, some will agree some not, I can live with that, arguing is better than not talking at all.

Would marker tape have kept Putwell Hill Mine open, I think not

If you need a chuck welding gates or capping shafts let us know, we are all into goodwill with the landowners.


Offline Iain Barker

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2007, 03:03:04 pm »
Mark,
 I couldn'y agree more about the "Nanny State". What a load of interfering bollocks it all is; which is one of the reasons I get so miffed when I have to carry out work just to keep all the suits happy. It goes against the grain big style. Thing is, if DCA doesn't do what the landowners want us to do Derbyshire caving will lose some of its best trips and personally, I'm willing to swallow my pride and do what they ask to keep them open for all. Ashford is a case in point but is what we term a "sacrificial" site. It sees loads of traffic every week from organised centres, the number of "real" cavers who visit is small, I know, they get access through me. What this does is keeps all the noddys out of Giant's, etc (well, ok, some of them!). Because of this unsafe areas HAVE to be delienated because these young people wouldn't know a loose block until it was on them.  Oh and Mark, I might take you up on that offer of help one day, cheers for that.

Dunc,
my caps lock wasn't stuck, as the guy said, I was shouting. It's when I go quiet people worry.

Anyway, let's let this bugger lie now. When's the next stomp?
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Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2007, 03:22:37 pm »
Can we let it rest after I suggest one of the taped areas be renamed "Watergate" on account of the controversy all the tapes have caused?  :)

Offline NigR

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2007, 12:19:58 pm »


WHAT A FUCKING MESS



I agree with Mark's assessment. Looking at the two photos in Descent it is obvious that whoever did this did not have the faintest idea how to go about it correctly, it is a shambles. Taping on conservation grounds is fine but it needs to be done right. To read in the accompanying article that it has been done 'sympathetically' is a complete joke. If this is how taping is done in Derbyshire I would suggest those responsible come down to South Wales and learn how to do it properly.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2007, 01:29:25 pm »
I would never judge how well done taping had been done purely from a photo or two, and certainly not when I have never been to the site in question. Even if I did think it had been done less than perfectly I certainly wouldn't make such a big deal of it, and most definitely acknowledge the perfectly good reasons why it had been done in the first place, and that those doing it were doing so in their own time, possibly against their better judgement, and not doing it for their own personal gain or satisfaction.

Paul and Ian: I suppose you just have to accept that some people will always find something to criticise and explain to you how it can be done so much better by someone else somewhere else. I wouldn't waste time typing any response whatsoever to such non-constructive comments.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2007, 02:02:03 pm »
whoever did this did not have the faintest idea how to go about it correctly, it is a shambles. Taping on conservation grounds is fine but it needs to be done right.

Looks like you've volunteered to write a leaflet on how to do taping properly, then, NigR.

Offline NigR

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Re: Marker Tape
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2007, 01:29:08 pm »
Looks like you've volunteered to write a leaflet on how to do taping properly, then, NigR.

I thought you would have realised by now that reading leaflets or going on training courses may not be the best ways of learning how to do things.

Of course, if anyone would like to see how to tape correctly I would be only too happy to show them. Members of Grwp Ogofeydd Garimpeiros are currently engaged in a comprehensive programme of re-taping (and re-surveying) many of the sites on the Black Mountain and adjacent areas here in West Wales. Any offers of assistance would be gratefully received (be prepared to walk several miles each way to the cave entrances, however).

If anyone is based closer to East Wales and doesn't want to come this far west then I would suggest they contact John Stevens or Arthur Millett of CSS for advice regarding the practicalities of taping as they definitely know what they are talking about.

Finally, let me say that by far the best way to learn how to tape properly is to go out and find some beautiful new cave passage that you would hate to see destroyed. You'll learn pretty fast then. Try it and see.


 

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