Author Topic: Flying tonight!  (Read 1925 times)

Offline pwhole

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Flying tonight!
« on: April 19, 2021, 12:53:28 pm »
NASA did it - first-ever powered flight on another planet - yeehah!:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56799755

Online SamT

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2021, 01:34:54 pm »
woopie do 

:shrug:

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2021, 02:38:37 pm »
woopie do 

:shrug:

Can we assume you are unimpressed?

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Offline wormster

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2021, 03:08:29 pm »
If you were not impressed with remote flight on a different planet, how unimpressed will you be when the ESA probe lands on Mars, collects the samples left by the latest rover and returns them to Earth??? It has been fun knowing that something I have personally been involved in building may go to Mars and back.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 03:41:35 pm »
I'm really into the current space tech industry, but i'm kinda with SamT on this one. Ingenuity is a proof of concept device. It actually is not set to do anything usefully scientific itself. And drone tech is very well proven on Earth, so it's not really reinventing much.
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Offline sinker

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 03:46:12 pm »
I'm really into the current space tech industry, but i'm kinda with SamT on this one. Ingenuity is a proof of concept device. It actually is not set to do anything usefully scientific itself. And drone tech is very well proven on Earth, so it's not really reinventing much.

FFS well lets see you do it then with your £9.99 Airfix kit and a rubber band  :lol:

"Glass half empty" some people  :shrug:
Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline Matrixman355

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 04:32:17 pm »
There's been a bunch of investigations into Martian cave exploration with robots:
https://ai.jpl.nasa.gov/public/projects/cave-rovers/
https://eos.org/articles/very-good-space-boys-robotic-dogs-may-dig-into-martian-caves

Some cool stuff, maybe we'll get hold of some tec one day

Online PeteHall

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2021, 04:45:50 pm »
It has been fun knowing that something I have personally been involved in building may go to Mars and back.

But did you get a BEC sticker onto it?

Online mikem

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 05:11:22 pm »
There's already about 10 tonnes of scrap on the surface...

Offline Fulk

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 05:23:06 pm »
Quote
And drone tech is very well proven on Earth, so it's not really reinventing much.

Apart from flying in a very thin atmosphere.

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 05:49:55 pm »
And flying autonomously. You can't use your RC Controller when it takes 5 minutes to get to the other end.

You also don't have the luxury of the Van-Allen belts shielding your fangled 'lectrics from cosmic rays. And temperature variations of 100 degrees C.

I think it is an exceptional demonstration of technology.

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Offline pwhole

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 06:25:24 pm »
And if all goes well with the test-flights, it can begin remotely-surveying the landscape. What's not to like? It's incredible.

Offline Rob

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2021, 09:04:35 pm »
And flying autonomously. You can't use your RC Controller when it takes 5 minutes to get to the other end.

You also don't have the luxury of the Van-Allen belts shielding your fangled 'lectrics from cosmic rays. And temperature variations of 100 degrees C.

I think it is an exceptional demonstration of technology.

Chris.

The auto nav technology in a modern Tesla is a million times more advanced, being able to autonomously navigate cars at 70 mph among seriously crowded streets in poor visibility. Ingenuity's system is more akin to Bill Stone's AUV from 15 years ago.

And the necessary cosmic radiation and thermal protection technology was developed +20 years ago and allowed Opportunity rover to work for 15 years on the martian surface!

Ingenuity is only really impressive because it's a first of it's kind and it worked first time. This is great, and i was cheering at the stream as it came through to JPL today, but it's not really advanced technology. Right, now i want the rest of my beer...
The end is where we start....

Offline wormster

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2021, 09:13:30 pm »
It has been fun knowing that something I have personally been involved in building may go to Mars and back.

But did you get a BEC sticker onto it?

I might have managed that 😎
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Offline Judi Durber

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 09:30:51 pm »
It has been fun knowing that something I have personally been involved in building may go to Mars and back.

But did you get a BEC sticker onto it?

I might have managed that 😎

Now THAT is impressive,  :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:      well done wormster     :lol: :lol:
We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life waiting for us.

Online SamT

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2021, 08:48:13 am »
woopie do 

:shrug:

Can we assume you are unimpressed?

Chris.

Just think the money (and fuck me, its a veritable fuck ton of money) and effort could be much better spent a little closer to home.

Offline Rob

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2021, 09:09:15 am »
Just think the money (and fuck me, its a veritable fuck ton of money) and effort could be much better spent a little closer to home.
Yer, if only all that money was spent here on Earth, expanding human's technological capabilities, creating new industries, providing jobs, and helping to foster peaceful connections between nations. Oh wait...

Space exploration is one of the most important areas of science that we as humans are fortunate enough to be able to study. It provides answers about the fundamental questions of the universe and our history within it.
The end is where we start....

Offline aardgoose

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2021, 09:11:34 am »
Quote
And if all goes well with the test-flights, it can begin remotely-surveying the landscape.

Sadly according to NASA it can only manage 90 seconds flight a day (needs to recharge it's batteries.  It also uses off the shelf mobile phone processors so is more likely to suffer radiation damage than the rover, which uses slower but hardened devices.I would imagine it has to be close to the rover for its command signals too.

Offline Fishes

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2021, 11:06:34 am »
Considering how low the atmospheric on Mars I think its a pretty amazing thing to get it to fly at all. Hats off to those that designed it.


Online SamT

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2021, 11:29:06 am »
Just think the money (and fuck me, its a veritable fuck ton of money) and effort could be much better spent a little closer to home.
Space exploration is one of the most important areas of science that we as humans are fortunate enough to be able to study. It provides answers about the fundamental questions of the universe and our history within it.

I don't buy it.  Yes, I'll accept that there have been some spin off technologies that have advanced the comfort/convenience of our existence on this planet, velcro, ball point pens and some other minor perks like Sky sports  ;)

But I think those things could have been invented anyhow, without the need for space exploration beyond our immediate vicinity.

Everyone should read this.. Dinosaurs and all that rubbish ..

https://www.slideshare.net/mayllos2/the-dinosaurs-1

Not going to argue with anyone about it.  Just reckon the current fascination with reaching mars is all a bit of a rich mans folly.  Rich men should spend their money a little more wisely I feel. 

Offline Fishes

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2021, 11:37:32 am »
Velcro and ball point pens were invented before the space program and you can keep Sky Sports but I still think its an impressive engineering achievement.


Offline Fulk

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2021, 12:09:26 pm »
Quote
Not going to argue with anyone about it.  Just reckon the current fascination with reaching mars is all a bit of a rich mans folly.  Rich men should spend their money a little more wisely I feel. 


While I do have some sympathy for that point of view, the real obscene waste is the money and resources spent on armaments. If we didn't want to make 'bigger and better bombs/guns/bullets' (trebuchets, crossbows etc. – it's not a modern phnomenon) all the time, then there's be loads of money left over for space exploration and fundamental science research.

Online SamT

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2021, 12:31:35 pm »

Totally agree - wouldn't it be nice if schools and hospitals had all the money they needed and the army had to organise jumble sales and fun runs to raise cash for their land mines, scatter bombs and sniper rifles.

(That said, speaking to someone in the military who said that there was genuine concern about the current cuts to the army, and that there are genuine threats lurking out there in the world that could see the UK attacked/invaded whatever, should we not have a suitably serious deterrent capability.)

Farting about with drones on Mars (and the looming space tourism industry) threatens my nice white middleclass existence through potential global warming consequences , so its cessation would be a positive thing.
Lack of a deterrent military capability threatens my nice white middleclass existence through potential murderous intent of other nations.  So, I concede a necessary evil.

Online mikem

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2021, 12:41:53 pm »
& a lot of defence spending pays UK wages, as well as allowing local companies to develop products that are sold elsewhere in world, so in monetary terms there wouldn't be that great a net gain for the government in stopping it (although there would be in humanitarian - if you could persuade everybody else as well !)

Offline 2xw

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2021, 12:52:57 pm »
Probably important to note that the money isn't being shot at mars to burn up in a fiery ball - that's employing scientists and engineers as well as contractors, firms associated etc.

And it's not actually that expensive. Less than we are spending on potholes and less than half the amount Unilever paid out in dividends last year. In the UK, if we spent on space what we spent on chocolate bars we could have 10 rovers a year.

Online PeteHall

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2021, 01:09:04 pm »
if you could persuade everybody else as well !
Good luck with that one...

In the UK, if we spent on space what we spent on chocolate bars we could have 10 rovers a year.
Now that's a thought! Is that based on actual numbers? If so, it's pretty shocking!

Offline Fishes

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2021, 01:12:25 pm »
My partner would tell you that that's just the amount I spend on chocolate.

Offline 2xw

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2021, 01:45:34 pm »
Quote

Now that's a thought! Is that based on actual numbers? If so, it's pretty shocking!

There's a load of news articles a bit ago about Brits spending an average of £325 a year on chocolate. Which is £21bn and the rover cost $2.5bn. I didn't do exact maths or currency conversions but yeah

Offline aardgoose

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2021, 01:51:58 pm »
But what if it is on mars bars?

Offline sinker

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2021, 03:03:52 pm »
But what if it is on mars bars?

Or Milky Way? Or Galaxy?? Think big, broaden your horizons.
Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2021, 03:29:15 pm »
Quote
Or Milky Way? Or Galaxy??

I'd gladly eat more chocolate if it aided space travel.
I personally think more should be effectively spent on space travel, research, and exploration, rather than sliced off as direct profits for large corporations and fees for career lobbyists.   I thought SpaceX getting the moon landing deal was rather amusing. 
There's so much out more there and so much that we don't know.  There's bound to be positive spin offs for other areas too.
Now if they can pilot the space drone into a Martian cave then that would indeed be a thing.

Offline sinker

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2021, 04:17:15 pm »

I personally think more should be effectively spent on space travel, research, and exploration, rather than sliced off as direct profits for large corporations and fees for career lobbyists.   
There's so much out more there and so much that we don't know.  There's bound to be positive spin offs for other areas too.


Just think how much money we could invest into science and exploration, not to mention feeding and caring for people, if we just cancelled the Trident programme and it's replacement.

https://cnduk.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/People-not-Trident-2016.pdf

As if £205Bn is not already an obscene enough amount of money, as with the way of all things government / military, this will go through the roof. Add 50% as a starter. £13Bn decommissioning??! FFS don't build it in the first place.
Obscene, criminal and heartbreaking.


Hey, I've gone properly OFF TOPIC now; apologies  :weep:



Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Online mikem

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2021, 04:44:50 pm »
70% of that figure is the day to day running costs, most of which would be accrued anyway by whatever conventional vessels we invested in instead.

(Galaxy was almost twice as popular as Mars in the poll...)

Offline pwhole

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2021, 05:09:57 pm »
If the UN change the regs on mining the moon, there's a shitload of titanium up there that would make a lot of money for everyone, and a lot of spaceships. There are massive lava tubes big enough to seal and construct habitats inside. I've always been dubious about the 'either/or' model for funding space exploration - there's plenty of money available for it, and removing poverty on earth won't be achieved by supermarkets or holidays or televised football but by high-tech industries writ large, and quality employment increased across the board - especially in space tech.

And agreed, vanity nuclear weapons projects are so laughable a concept now that any world leader even suggesting them should be removed from office for being a fuckwit. That's about half of them. And there's your budget and your rocket and guidance technology, already developed, paid for and effective. I hate to sound like a hippie, but violence and warfare are basically an embarrassment to the species now and we need to get our shit together and fast. The world leaders who advocate this nonsense know their days are numbered and they're starting to sweat. The whole world is watching, to quote a popular historical phrase.

Online mikem

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2021, 05:23:22 pm »
The problem is the leaders not trusting each other & I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. (Well some of them we know are never going to play ball)

Offline pwhole

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2021, 05:42:16 pm »
They're all also petrified of the concept of giving their citizens money, even though they know that citizens in poverty are the biggest drag on their societies developing. If people are better off, maybe they won't need them any more. In many ways it seems the public are now way ahead of their leaders, which is an interesting concept, if a little scary. Most  development, be it technical, social, whatever, has followed an exponential curve since around 2000BC, and it gets ever nearer to vertical, so each change happens faster than the last.

Offline sinker

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2021, 06:27:43 pm »

70% of that figure.....would be accrued anyway by whatever conventional vessels we invested in instead.


Yeah. So we don't need those either.

Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline Fishes

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2021, 06:50:24 pm »
If the UN change the regs on mining the moon, there's a shitload of titanium up there that would make a lot of money for everyone, and a lot of spaceships.

There are also lots of titanium minerals on earth and a big infrastructure to process them. I'm really not sure why you would want to go to the moon for it.

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2021, 07:24:20 pm »

Just think how much money we could invest into science and exploration, not to mention feeding and caring for people, if we just cancelled the Trident programme and it's replacement.


Surely most of that ultimately goes on wages. Better to pay people to do something 'useful' rather than sod all surely?

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Online mikem

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2021, 09:49:56 pm »
I suppose we could get rid of the one sector that actually has export potential at the moment - might as well ruin the entire economy whilst we're at it.

Offline wormster

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2021, 11:38:07 pm »
Surely most of that ultimately goes on wages. Better to pay people to do something 'useful' rather than sod all surely?

Chris.

Too true Chris, it puts a roof over my head, food in the fridge and the hot tub in the backyard!
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Offline sinker

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2021, 08:27:00 am »
Surely most of that ultimately goes on wages. Better to pay people to do something 'useful' rather than sod all surely?

Chris.

Too true Chris, it puts a roof over my head, food in the fridge and the hot tub in the backyard!


We can still spend the money, so you won't starve and your hot tub is safe; lets just spend it on schools and hospitals and such like. We can keep the armed forces, no problem. They can take over the role of the police in peace-time. Oh hang on, we would be able to afford the police again as well!

Curing cancer.
Potholes.
Education.
Affordable housing.
Power generation.
Clean energy.
Mental health.
Homelessness.



Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Online PeteHall

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2021, 08:49:52 am »
I would respectfully suggest that national security is a prerequisite to all the above.

There are bad people out there, whether or not we like it and it is precisely the safety and security offered by this country that allows everything else to thrive.

In an ideal world, we would not need an armed forces, or nuclear deterrents, but we do not live in an ideal world.  :(

Offline dugadig

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2021, 10:26:05 pm »
I just would say that in 1903 the Wright Brothers made the first powered flight with a bit of canvas.
Only 66 years later we land on the moon.
Humans explore.. It's what we like to do!

Offline pwhole

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2021, 10:21:23 am »
This:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/02/nearing-giant-leap-for-mankind-space-possibilities-are-transformational

Space is at an inflection point, about to join electricity, the computer and the railway as a great general purpose technology that will transform economies and societies. To those who dare, whose capitalism and governments have the right alchemy of entrepreneurial zest and public purpose, and who possess the sheer chutzpah to see the possibilities, will fall great prizes. Britain could be among them.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Flying tonight!
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2021, 10:35:38 am »

Humans explore.. It's what we like to do!

On a caving forum, maybe you're preaching to the converted?  ;)

 

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