UK Caving

TECHNICAL FORUMS => Equipment => Topic started by: mrodoc on April 14, 2019, 12:11:31 pm

Title: Bolt drivers
Post by: mrodoc on April 14, 2019, 12:11:31 pm
Since the advent of cordless drills bolt driving by hand must be a dying art. Does anybody use a hand held bolt driver now? I have been in situations where using a cordless drill would have been impossible eg treating water in Pridhamsleigh Cavern whilst hammering in bolts to hang kit. So perhaps cave divers are the only ones to use them now.
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Ian Ball on April 14, 2019, 12:22:46 pm
For temporary bolt placement, I suspect the concrete screws tested by Mr Wilson are the way forward.  I've no comment on hand bolt placement popularity though.

 Self-tapping concrete screws: their selection, testing and use. By Simon Wilson. (http://www.cncc.org.uk/doc/1182)
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Oceanrower on April 14, 2019, 12:30:37 pm
But they still require a hole to be drilled. They're not truly self-tapping.

I suspect mrodoc means more like a rawldrill.

https://verticalarchaeology.com/2016/04/26/rawl-hand-drills/
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Wolfo on April 14, 2019, 12:39:27 pm
I still use a Petzl Rocpec with a 4-flute Hilti drill for hand drilling, pretty lightweight.
2-4 bolts drilled by hand are not a big deal, so an old piton hammer, a few bolts/concrete screws and the Rocpec are allways in the vertical gear pack.
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Madness on April 14, 2019, 01:20:40 pm
But they still require a hole to be drilled. They're not truly self-tapping.

I suspect mrodoc means more like a rawldrill.

https://verticalarchaeology.com/2016/04/26/rawl-hand-drills/

Concrete screws do require a hole drilling - They are not self drilling

But they are self tapping.
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: MarkS on April 14, 2019, 03:12:17 pm
We hand bolted on a couple of expeditions to Montenegro within the last 10 years. We had no electricity supply, we were very restricted on the weight of equipment we could take, and we didn't have any deep leads at the time. One of our main discoveries was hand-bolted down to about -300 m.

I also ended up placing one by hand in China when the other teams had nicked the drills for their leads!
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: andrewmc on April 14, 2019, 03:17:07 pm
Not caving, but I believe all bolts in Yosemite are hand-drilled (and there are plenty on the big walls)...
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Wolfo on April 14, 2019, 07:07:01 pm
Not caving, but I believe all bolts in Yosemite are hand-drilled (and there are plenty on the big walls)...

You're right, as power drills are prohibited at many US climbing spots.
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: PeteHall on April 14, 2019, 10:05:40 pm
I have placed a number of hand driven spits in recent years (probably less than 10) when the effort of carrying a drill for a single placement has outweighed the effort of hand drilling  :)
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Subpopulus Hibernia on April 14, 2019, 10:34:31 pm
I still use a Petzl Rocpec with a 4-flute Hilti drill for hand drilling, pretty lightweight.
2-4 bolts drilled by hand are not a big deal, so an old piton hammer, a few bolts/concrete screws and the Rocpec are allways in the vertical gear pack.

I recently inherited a Rocpec from a fellow caver and am not really sure how much use it is to me. What diameter and depth holes do you normally drill? I use concrete screws requiring 6mm hole c.70mm deep but this looks like it would far too long, and probably bend the narrow drill bit before reaching the bottom...
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Pitlamp on April 15, 2019, 07:42:59 am
Yes, I certainly use hand bolting - anywhere particularly wet or when just one or two bolts are needed some distance in from an entrance (i.e. where it's not worth carrying a bulky package containing a battery drill).
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: Wolfo on April 15, 2019, 08:09:36 pm
I recently inherited a Rocpec from a fellow caver and am not really sure how much use it is to me. What diameter and depth holes do you normally drill? I use concrete screws requiring 6mm hole c.70mm deep but this looks like it would far too long, and probably bend the narrow drill bit before reaching the bottom...

Normally 6 or 8mm, but I once even drilled some 18mm holes (fucking slow).
With good drills (not some China no-name-brand-garbage) 70mm @ 6mm diameter is absolutly no problem, I did this many times.
It's important you doesn't force the drill holder (here Rocpec) in any direction - keen it loose in your hand while dilling and rotate 90° regulary after each hit. 4-flute-drills are the best.
Don't tap hard, better more often: taptaptaptaptap, not bang..............bang.................bang.
For me such a hole is about 5-10 minutes work, depending on the rock.
Title: Re: Bolt drivers
Post by: maxf on April 15, 2019, 09:02:39 pm
I still use a Petzl Rocpec with a 4-flute Hilti drill for hand drilling, pretty lightweight.
2-4 bolts drilled by hand are not a big deal, so an old piton hammer, a few bolts/concrete screws and the Rocpec are allways in the vertical gear pack.

I recently inherited a Rocpec from a fellow caver and am not really sure how much use it is to me. What diameter and depth holes do you normally drill? I use concrete screws requiring 6mm hole c.70mm deep but this looks like it would far too long, and probably bend the narrow drill bit before reaching the bottom...

I think you can get short hilti bits that only have about the right amount of fluted length for bolts. Good for bolting in rifts