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CSCC Locks

ZombieCake

Active member
It'll be nice when access restrictions are finally lifted and we can actually get back access to all the currently shut caving huts, and therefore access all and any keys if needed as appropriate.
Hopefully, not too long now, but I have doubts over the 21 June date given the flakiness of the current situation.
 

badger

Member
I would think if cavers are visiting from out of area, that they will be staying at 1 of mendip caving huts, like wise when mendip cavers venture out of are they would stay at a caving hut in that area.
If staying at a cave hut it should be easily arranged that you can get access to a cscc key.
Knowing the issues sometimes caused in difficulty unlocking a padlock with a key, I believe the use of combination locks would be even worse, and require even more maintenance from cscc access officer.

Badger
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
badger said:
I would think if cavers are visiting from out of area, that they will be staying at 1 of mendip caving huts, like wise when mendip cavers venture out of are they would stay at a caving hut in that area.
If staying at a cave hut it should be easily arranged that you can get access to a cscc key.

If I ever come to Mendip, I leave my house in the East Midlands at about 5am, drive to Mendip, do a days caving, then drive home.

I don't go near any huts, and time spent procuring a key is time spent not caving.

Whereas I have a Derbyshire Key.

The upshot is that the locations I would visit on Mendip are restricted, compared to Yorkshire or Derbyshire for example.

Chris.
 

JoshW

Active member
ChrisJC said:
The upshot is that the locations I would visit on Mendip are restricted, compared to Yorkshire or Derbyshire for example.

Be interested to see why you think this is an upshot?

Personally I'd like to see access as open as possible and funding put towards conservation campaigns to ensure pretty stuff can stay that way.
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
JoshW said:
ChrisJC said:
The upshot is that the locations I would visit on Mendip are restricted, compared to Yorkshire or Derbyshire for example.

Be interested to see why you think this is an upshot?

Personally I'd like to see access as open as possible and funding put towards conservation campaigns to ensure pretty stuff can stay that way.

Maybe wrong word!! try consequence.  :-[

Chris.
 

Fishes

New member
As an outsider I've never had issues getting access to most Mendip sites. I think access agreements are generally best left with local cavers/landowners who have put the work in over many decades to build access arrangements. I don't think outsiders should have a major influence in the matter.



 

alastairgott

Well-known member
ChrisJC said:
If I ever come to Mendip, I leave my house in the East Midlands at about 5am, drive to Mendip, do a days caving, then drive home.

That's keen! I think you should be given a Gold key to the Hunters inn and it's fiefdom.
 

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
As usual a load of fuss about practically nothing. Most of us who cave on Mendip have our own key and as far as I know you can easily get them copied. Its a matter of trust on how they are used. I have never caved with a club and seldom visit my club huts. I am in a small band of old people who like to do things their own way and that includes sorting out access. Over Covid we have gained access to three sites for digging by using the personal approach. An approach by a committee representing hundreds of cavers would have stood no chance.
 

JoshW

Active member
The Old Ruminator said:
An approach by a committee representing hundreds of cavers would have stood no chance.

One of the strangest quotes in this thread, why?
 

badger

Member
and not sure the thread is about landowner/caver relationship, in most mendip cases it seems fine. the issue is on how the landowner wants them secured. In CSCC it seems padlocked, then access to keys.
When I was not a member of a club or in a CSCC club I never experienced an issue in getting keys. And was only a very small inconvenience to go via a cave club. It was unusual not to find someone at the wessex who had access to keys

An all together different debate is whether the locks should be fitted with a derbyshire key or  padlock, seems to be pros and cons for both arguments, but since there for the majority is no issue getting keys why change it. FYI I am for open arrangements rather than locked caves. But dont see the reason to fix an issue which works for the majority and keeps mendip landowners happy
 

PeteHall

Moderator
The Old Ruminator said:
Over Covid we have gained access to three sites for digging by using the personal approach. An approach by a committee representing hundreds of cavers would have stood no chance.

I'm not sure what point you are making TOR. Isn't this always the case for :dig: ?

A more relevant question would be, once your cave goes and more people than just the diggers want to visit, what will be the access agreement? Will the landowner be happy for it to be open, or will they want some form of access control. If the latter, who will manage it?

It is surely far better for this to be managed by a regional council, with a standardised system, than for you to get a phone call every time someone wants to go down. What happens when you reach the end of your caving career and/or life? Access is lost until someone else starts from scratch talking to the landowner?

Obviously the above is irrelevant while your site is a dig and basically nobody except the diggers want to visit it, so in the context of CSCC access systems etc, it is also irrelevant is it not?  :confused:
 

Ed

Member
Keys aren't an issue --- about 2 minutes with a cheap set of lockpicks of ebay will open them locks.

Quicker than driving to a club --- can't do that with a combination lock.

Somewhere like Box Mine is always going to have issues no matter what lock you put on. Use a paddock and someone with just use the "universal key"
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Ed said:
Keys aren't an issue --- about 2 minutes with a cheap set of lockpicks of ebay will open them locks.

That might be the case if you're a skilled lockpick, which 99.9% of the population are not, even before you think of all the mud and rust in these things, and the awkward positioning of them. A lock will keep out most people who aren't willing to grind them off.
 

Minion

Member
If you?re not a skilled lock pick like Ed, then ?4 on eBay will buy you the correct key.

I?m opposed to gates and locks, but if they?re freely available on eBay for a few quid to all and sundry, then the gates and locks serve no purpose except keep landowners happy and stroke the egos of the ?access controlling bodies?.

 

NewStuff

New member
Minion said:
If you?re not a skilled lock pick like Ed, then ?4 on eBay will buy you the correct key.

While I can certainly pick locks, any half-decent lockpicker knows a key is usually a quicker option, unless the lock is truly awful. Got a link to those keys?? I can't find anything with a few varied searches.
I'm pretty sure the CSCC use Abus 50 series locks, so blanks are readily available.
 

estelle

Member
JohnMCooper said:
Yes an individual can hold a key. I've had the old one and the new one myself even though I belong to a club with several of them in the tackle store.
me too, got mine from the CSCC as it is just more convenient to have one myself than go via a caving hut. If you want a key for your club or individually, best to contact the CSCC.
 

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
The car park at Fairy Cave Quarry requires a CSCC key and parking is limited in the lane. Basically that's why I have the key. Please always remember to lock the gate when you are caving.

As for access ( off topic ). Correct a dig is a dig. Should it become something else a permanent access arrangement is best. Foot in the door initially really.
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Minion said:
If you?re not a skilled lock pick like Ed, then ?4 on eBay will buy you the correct key.

If you know exactly what you're looking for and are aware that you can find it on eBay. A lock won't keep out anyone whose determined enough to do a lot of research or put a lot of effort in. Which means it will keep out everyone else. Which means they do their job pretty well.

I'm no fan of locking caves, but let's not misrepresent how well locks keep out Joe public. Instead I'd be interested to know how many legitimate cavers they keep out because it's more faff to organize a trip. That's the big issue.
 
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