Author Topic: Knot Booklet  (Read 6518 times)

Offline 75RR

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Knot Booklet
« on: December 13, 2013, 12:35:38 pm »
Hi,
Have been working for a while on a Knot Pamphlet that, perhaps inevitably, morphed into a 40+ Knot Booklet.
Thought folks here might like to have a look.
It is not specific to caving, more a General Knot Booklet, but I think cavers will find several of the knots useful.
It is made available under the Creative Common License, so it is free, with the following conditions:
Attribution – Noncommercial – No Derivative Works.

http://goo.gl/c9dGuU

If you like it, I would appreciate it if you said so.

Offline Les W

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 01:39:46 pm »
Looks very good, you've done quite a lot of work, thanks...  :thumbsup:
I'm a very busy person

Offline rhychydwr1

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 02:02:28 pm »
I am really impressed.

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 04:13:11 pm »

Thanks Les W and rhychydwr1.

Glad to see not everyone is a member of the Entitlement Society.

Offline paul

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 05:24:27 pm »
I like it. Very useful.
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Offline glyders

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 05:54:15 pm »
Great work. I'll be forwarding the link to quite a few people!

Offline Fulk

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 06:30:05 pm »
I liked your little booklet (in particular, how to tie the EBSB), but what is the Entitlement Society?

Quote
Glad to see not everyone is a member of the Entitlement Society.

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 06:48:08 pm »
Thanks to paul, glyders and Fulk for posting.

At its most basic it is a Society made up of Individuals who feel they are entitled to everything, so they no longer bother to say please nor thank you.

Offline graham

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 08:10:16 pm »
Excellent booklet, as Les says, a lot of work has gone into that.  :thumbsup:
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Offline estelle

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 08:34:39 pm »
very impressed :clap2:, will be passing the link onto others as i think that is excellent. :)
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Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 11:35:07 pm »
graham you are welcome.
estelle, thanks, hope your "others" like it

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2013, 01:16:21 am »
As of this moment, the Knot Booklet has been downloaded 125 times from ukCaving, and only 7 people have said thank you. Assuming most Mothers tried to instill manners in their children, many of them must feel disappointed.

Offline big-palooka

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2013, 09:18:24 am »
Hello 75RR

I have just seen this thread and had a look at the booklet.  I often find it a bit of a chore trying to get my Scouts to understand knots these days - have to draw lots of coloured diagrams on the board each time and they often don't see the point in the different knots until they get out to doing some climbing caving or kayaking

Your booklet is really great.  Would you mind if I downloaded it and used it as a template for knot tying sessions for my group.

Many thanks

Paul



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Offline Paulaner

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 10:26:05 am »
Great booklet thanks .

Offline bat

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2013, 11:21:23 am »
Thanks for all your effort, :thumbsup: I will certainly add it to my file on knots.  :beer2:
Gary

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2013, 11:37:54 am »
Your booklet is really great.  Would you mind if I downloaded it and used it as a template for knot tying sessions for my group.

You may indeed print and distribute it to your group. It must however be the whole booklet, in its entirety, you may not print selected pages. See page 4 of the Knot Booklet for conditions. Good luck with the class.

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2013, 11:39:42 am »
Paulaner and bat, you are welcome.

Offline kingsdale boy

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2013, 02:04:35 pm »
Thanks Good loo reading material

Offline JJ

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2013, 06:27:20 pm »
A good resource - many thanks.

Offline Fulk

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2013, 08:03:08 pm »
Evening, 75RR,

Quote
As of this moment, the Knot Booklet has been downloaded 125 times from ukCaving, and only 7 people have said thank you. Assuming most Mothers tried to instill manners in their children, many of them must feel disappointed.

Well; I've no particular axe to grind, and I certainly wouldn't defend ingratitude and the 'me too, I wanna it all' society, but to be fair – if you post something on the Internet that can be downloaded with virtually no strings attached, can you really expect every one to say 'thank you'?

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2013, 08:27:56 pm »
with virtually no strings attached,

Just the one. Obviously too much for some.

Offline graham

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2013, 09:52:05 pm »
with virtually no strings attached,

Just the one. Obviously too much for some.

Three, that I saw:

Quote
It is made available under the Creative Common License, so it is free, with the following conditions:
Attribution – Noncommercial – No Derivative Works.

Nothing there about posting thanks on here.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you about those with a sense of entitlement - many of whom post on UKC - but I don't. for example, post thanks on the Mozilla site when Firefox is upgraded, nor do I post thanks on the Therion site when a new version is released. So what you seem to be desiring is not, apparently, the norm in this sort of situation.
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Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2013, 10:25:15 pm »
Quote
Nothing there about posting thanks on here.

Look below the download link.

If I were to print the Knot Booklet, stand at a corner and hand them out, would anyone say thanks?
Do you think they should?
What is it about the www that encourages otherwise polite people to adopt this behavior?

Are you aware that people make money out of their "free, no need to thank me" products.

But enough of this. Do as you will.
Just be aware that we all make the world we live in.

Offline graham

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2013, 10:37:44 pm »
Quote
Nothing there about posting thanks on here.

Look below the download link.

I am not going to argue with you, when it comes to entitlement, we are on the same page.

If I were to print the Knot Booklet, stand at a corner and hand them out, would anyone say thanks?
Do you think they should?

In my experience, most people would refuse one  :)

What is it about the www that encourages otherwise polite people to adopt this behaviour?

The simple fact that a response is not normally required.

Are you aware that people make money out of their "free, no need to thank me" products.

As someone who is closely involved in a number of websites that make material available under CC licenses, yes I am.

But enough of this. Do as you will.
Just be aware that we all make the world we live in.

Profound
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Offline mmilner

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2013, 10:51:43 pm »
Hi, Have been working for a while on a Knot Pamphlet that, perhaps inevitably, morphed into a 40+ Knot Booklet.

The words; wheel re-inventing the come to mind:-

http://www.lifeonaline.com/

An excellent publication which has been available for several years. I'm sure there must be others too.  :shrug:
Norbert Casteret (Ten Years Under the Earth) and Pierre Chevalier (Subterranean Climbers) were my inspiration to start caving. (And I'm still doing it.) Secretary, Darfar Potholing Club, the Peak District.

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2013, 11:08:48 pm »
Hi, Have been working for a while on a Knot Pamphlet that, perhaps inevitably, morphed into a 40+ Knot Booklet.

The words; wheel re-inventing the come to mind:-

http://www.lifeonaline.com/

An excellent publication which has been available for several years. I'm sure there must be others too.  :shrug:

Looking forward to receiving a copy that you have purchased for me!
 

Offline badger

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2013, 08:33:35 am »
thank you for producing something and available for free. some very useful tips and easy ro follow diagrams :clap2:

Offline susie

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2013, 08:59:12 am »
As of this moment, the Knot Booklet has been downloaded 125 times from ukCaving, and only 7 people have said thank you. Assuming most Mothers tried to instill manners in their children, many of them must feel disappointed.

I'm slightly confused by this statement. Surely the 125 just measures the number of people who have assessed it, not those who necessarily thought it worthwhile keeping?

Offline TheBitterEnd

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2013, 09:34:02 am »
Measuring web statistics is quite complex and simply taking the number of hits or views does not necessarily reflect the number of unique people who have "downloaded" a file (i.e. saved to local storage).

The OP has clearly put a lot of effort into his booklet and is entitled to release it under whatever conditions he chooses, however the usual pay back mechanism on the web for royalty free use is that others contribute in the same way. I wonder if the OP has said thank you to those who host this forum, those who wrote this forum's software, those who wrote the webserver software that forum uses, those who wrote the database software that the forum software uses.

I wonder if he says thanks every time he sends an email to those who wrote the free email transport software that transports his email? No? As I said, many, many  people contribute to this free ecosystem - you scratch my back, etc.
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Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2013, 09:54:06 am »
I'm slightly confused by this statement. Surely the 125 just measures the number of people who have assessed it, not those who necessarily thought it worthwhile keeping?

You are quite right. Make that 124.

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2013, 09:56:27 am »
TheBitterEnd

Quote
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.' — Mark Twain

Will take Mark Twain's advice.

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2013, 09:57:22 am »
thank you for producing something and available for free. some very useful tips and easy ro follow diagrams :clap2:

You are most welcome.

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2013, 10:03:41 am »
Too many ruffled feathers in this forum, something to to with the shoe fitting, no doubt.
Will no longer comment on posts.

My thanks to those of you who wanted to say thanks, you are welcome. 

Offline Jopo

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2013, 10:41:46 am »
I invented the swing cheek pulley, as you know it today, in 1973 - and no one ever said thank you to me - especially Petzl :).

I don't feel aggrieved - just naive for not patenting before showing
Jopo

Offline Mike Hopley

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2013, 11:35:06 am »
I had a look at the knot booklet. I didn't find it useful. There are much better resources elsewhere.

Speaking of entitlement: what makes you feel entitled to gratitude? Why should I be grateful for something that I downloaded and found to be useless?

I wasn't going to comment at all, out of politeness. But your pompous axe-grinding negated that.

Offline Blakethwaite

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2013, 11:54:46 am »
Personally, if I'd sent something out to one or two people I'd expect and in most cases receive an acknowledgement. If I'd sent something to a large distribution list the very last thing I would want is a thank-you note from every single person. In fact I'd find it rather annoying.

I downloaded it then deleted it straightway as it happens. Nothing wrong with it in fact, it was rather nice in its own way. It just didn't serve any needs I might have.

Perhaps we should start leaving ice cream tubs with pens and paper in them after every dig just so that who everyone who follows can write a little note, just to  stroke our egos?  ::)

Offline Bottlebank

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2013, 12:10:47 pm »
Perhaps if those with trolling tendencies shut up sometimes this forum would be a more pleasant place. I've been surprised how many people lurk but don't post on here because of your unpleasant and sometimes downright nasty non contributions.

I thought it was a great effort, so thanks, although not much application for me - if I can't nail it with a bowline of figure of eight I generally stick a ladder on it.

Quote
Perhaps we should start leaving ice cream tubs with pens and paper in them after every dig just so that who everyone who follows can write a little note, just to  stroke our egos?

Great idea :-) How about a review system, quality of scaffolding & shoring, size of passage (0-rat holed to 5-man sized), apparent stability, potential, level of gratitude (0-heavily over sold to 5-worth every minute of the trip) etc.
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Offline JessopSmythe

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2013, 01:00:35 pm »
I'm one of the 125 who looked at it and didn't save it. I still "downloaded" it in order to view it. I may have even been 2 of the 125 as I viewed it at work to show a fellow scout leader.
Both of us agreed that we prefer

http://www.animatedknots.com/ as well as the relevant pages of LOAL and Alpine Caving Techniques

since I didn't keep it after review, I saw no need to thank you for it.
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Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2014, 01:22:53 pm »
Not sure if ebooks have new editions or just get updates. Calling it 2.0
Changes include adding the following knots: Water Knot, Carrick Bend, Highwayman's Hitch and Tumble Hitch. Also added drawings of the Constrictor Knot in the Bight and the Shear Lashing, drawings showing how to join Slings and Recovery Straps and a little info/drawing on Slipped Hitches.  Have also polished the text a little

Offline Cookie

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2014, 02:46:27 pm »
Very useful & informative.

Thank you.
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Offline mulucaver

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2014, 09:58:34 pm »
A well produced booklet. Unfortunately one of the knots I use occasionally and can never remember is not there, that is the tensioning knot for a tyrolean. The knots I regularly use I already know.
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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2014, 12:41:28 am »
Nice job! Do you have to draw the ropes by hand or do you have some cad system to do the 3d bits and the strands ?

Robin

Offline 75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2015, 12:36:23 pm »
Thanks Cookie, mulucaver and RobinGriffiths

Quote
the tensioning knot for a tyrolean
Will add to next edition list! No date on that though.
Quote
Do you have to draw the ropes by hand or do you have some cad system to do the 3d bits and the strands ?
Drawn in Illustrator, created strands in Brushes

Offline Mark Wright

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2015, 12:41:44 pm »
A well produced booklet. Unfortunately one of the knots I use occasionally and can never remember is not there, that is the tensioning knot for a tyrolean. The knots I regularly use I already know.

The tensioning knot is call a Poldo Tackle.

mark