Author Topic: Deepest cave in England  (Read 3131 times)

Offline Duncan Price

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2020, 01:14:39 pm »
Pretty sure it is Charterhouse Cave on Mendip at 228 metres but I could be wrong.

Or 219 m to the sump - the rest is underwater.

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2020, 01:20:52 pm »
Of course, if you wanted the deepest mine in England, then I think the deep end at Boulby Potash Mine is -1450m

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Offline PeteHall

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2020, 01:53:28 pm »
Pretty sure it is Charterhouse Cave on Mendip at 228 metres but I could be wrong.

Or 219 m to the sump - the rest is underwater.

I reckon that you might get a couple more metres after all this dry weather...
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Offline mikem

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2020, 01:59:11 pm »
& although three counties has a bigger vertical range, I don't think anyone has been from the highest entrance to the deepest point?

Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2020, 03:00:08 pm »
I always thought it was Peak.  I remember not believing how deep Swildons was, comparing it to the previous weeks Meregill trip.   Has Charterhouse and Peak achieved there full depth potential?  I suppose theorising where the biggest depth potential is fraught with too many ifs and buts.

Offline mikem

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2020, 05:03:03 pm »
Pretty sure peak is close, whereas charterhouse connects to goughs cave at bottom of Cheddar Gorge (the end is currently near the top & the highest bits of cliff are 100m).
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 05:12:40 pm by mikem »

Offline mrodoc

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2020, 05:03:15 pm »
Talking of deep caves that need relatively little effort to bottom them you would have to add in Tatham Wife Hole. It was my first proper Yorkshire Pot but as none of the pitches were very long it didn't seem too demanding to a 17 year old (and his dad).

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2020, 08:59:28 pm »
Ofd is in Wales matey

 :chair: that'll teach me not to skim read posts!

Not wishing to be pedantic or controversial, but Wales is part of England, and has been since the campaigns of King Edward 1st in 1283.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_Wales_by_Edward_I_of_England

I realise that is not without controversy!

Chris.

Not wishing to be pedantic but the local government act of 1972 recognizes it as a separate legal entity distinct to England. Hence the decision whether Monmouthshire is in Wales or England.

And Wales only really became a part of England in 1535 under Henry 'Tudur' - otherwise much of France has been England, (fiefdom is different from kingdom), the legal basis for incorporation comes from this time. This is only completed in 1746 where they have to realize they have to define Wales legally. You then also have things like the laws in Wales act that show that Wales was always treated as a distinct entity within the union, and that subsequent to the union of crowns arguing whether it was a part of England or not was epitome of pedantry.

Couldn't let it go - almost as predictable as the Mendipians insisting that their caves are the deepest/biggest etc but only if you add a qualification and exclude the others.

Offline A_Northerner

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2020, 10:19:49 pm »
I once heard that an oft-overlooked contender for "deepest trip" would be a theoretical trip from Maskhill Mine down to the bottom of East Canal (the ~30m depth of East Canal included). Can the might of UKC's corrective nature crunch the numbers on that one to see how deep that would be, entrance to bottom?

I know it won't count as the deepest cave, as Maskhill is a mine, and not even deepest trip, as other mines are deeper.
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Online shotlighter

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2020, 11:05:50 pm »
I once heard that an oft-overlooked contender for "deepest trip" would be a theoretical trip from Maskhill Mine down to the bottom of East Canal (the ~30m depth of East Canal included). Can the might of UKC's corrective nature crunch the numbers on that one to see how deep that would be, entrance to bottom?

I know it won't count as the deepest cave, as Maskhill is a mine, and not even deepest trip, as other mines are deeper.
According to my old copy of COPD, it's 693 ft (211 m).

Online alastairgott

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2020, 11:30:54 pm »
if deep is what you're after. just do the trip twice  :lol:

Offline A_Northerner

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2020, 11:53:04 pm »
Consulting the Peak/Speedwell 3D model, the Top of the Titan entrance shaft (and pretty much the top of the entrance shaft of JH) to the bottom of Main Rising, is 267m - which would make it deeper than the 3CS (if the 249m value on Wikipedia is to be believed). However both the Titan and JH entrance shafts are artificial, so it would seem wrong to count them - there are much much much deeper mines in the UK (1400m depth!!).

The very top of Titan, to the bottom of Main Rising is 237m - which would make it slightly shallower than the 3CS. The deepest you could do without diving would be 166m.

B

Sounds like it's time you got back down there with a shovel then, Derbyshire has a crown to claim!
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2020, 12:31:16 am »
Most of the (currently) accessible parts of Maskhill are natural though. Only the entrance shaft is man-made. There were 19 meers allocated to Maskhill heading west, and only one of them is currently used. It does make you wonder where the rest is. And whether more of that is natural. Some of the shafts looked at in the 2010 Credit Crunch project must have been part of the title though, and they didn't go far.

Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2020, 07:14:43 am »
Uh oh. We have a problem.  Best give it to boulby potash mine.
When does a cave dig turn into a mine?  When it was done? Use of explosives? The reasons it’s been dug?  Do we just include entrances? 
Meregill it is then  :)

Offline mikem

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2020, 07:39:39 am »
Or something that hasn't been discovered yet....

Offline A_Northerner

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2020, 08:10:09 am »
Uh oh. We have a problem.  Best give it to boulby potash mine.
When does a cave dig turn into a mine?  When it was done? Use of explosives? The reasons it’s been dug?  Do we just include entrances? 
Meregill it is then  :)

I'd say if explosives were used to enlarge a natural passage for exploration that's fair game. The system's depth has not been artificially altered by that.

Same with digging soil/stone fill out of a natural passage.
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Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2020, 10:50:58 am »
That seems fair enough.  Otherwise mendips would only have 3 caves. ::)  So Charterhouse it is.  Your in luck too benshannon, Pete hall is willing to show you the way  :clap2:  is it a good trip?

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2020, 11:06:47 am »
is it a good trip?
A very fine trip by any standards  :)

I would allow 8 hours for a trip to the end, assuming that you don't look at anything off the main through route..

Definitely worth wearing a decent pair of knee pads as there is plenty of crawling  ;D
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2020, 11:12:52 am »
In case anyone's still pondering on the Maskhill to Giant's East Canal vertical range, I can confirm that East Canal is 24.5 m deep in dry conditions (i.e. when water level is at the level of the floor of the approach passage as you enter the East Canal chamber.

Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2020, 01:24:41 pm »
I didn’t want to stifle debate  :-[. It’s so close one has to wonder about surveys.  Although this doesn’t apply probably with peak. Maskhill or Charterhouse. I remember a debate of where the cave began rather than the sump level.  I was wondering when the peakerites would challenge.   ;D
Depth potential?.  I’m going with black keld, wharfedale.

Offline Tseralo

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2020, 02:17:39 pm »
Consulting the Peak/Speedwell 3D model, the Top of the Titan entrance shaft (and pretty much the top of the entrance shaft of JH) to the bottom of Main Rising, is 267m - which would make it deeper than the 3CS (if the 249m value on Wikipedia is to be believed). However both the Titan and JH entrance shafts are artificial, so it would seem wrong to count them - there are much much much deeper mines in the UK (1400m depth!!).

The very top of Titan, to the bottom of Main Rising is 237m - which would make it slightly shallower than the 3CS. The deepest you could do without diving would be 166m.

B

Sounds like it's time you got back down there with a shovel then, Derbyshire has a crown to claim!

Or stick Rob back into cliff hangar. If nettle was connected that would give 303.81m.

As for depth potential it's definitely in the peak as the limestone goes down quite a way but you will need more than a few cylinders to do it.

Offline Mark Wright

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2020, 02:55:24 pm »

Or stick Rob back into cliff hangar. If nettle was connected that would give 303.81m.

As for depth potential it's definitely in the peak as the limestone goes down quite a way but you will need more than a few cylinders to do it.

Does the 303.81m include the depth of Russet Well?

Mark

Offline A_Northerner

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2020, 02:59:54 pm »
In case anyone's still pondering on the Maskhill to Giant's East Canal vertical range, I can confirm that East Canal is 24.5 m deep in dry conditions (i.e. when water level is at the level of the floor of the approach passage as you enter the East Canal chamber.

After having placed/collected data loggers onthe level of East Canal during flood conditions I'd say that the depth could vary from as little as 24.5m in the dry as you say, to at least 40m, as one particular flood pulse increased the water level by something like 15m in a single night. It's an interesting 'little' canal as you say. I wonder if it's worth doing survey work to get a definitive depth on the Canal relative to the survey itself. I don't think the current file includes the depth.
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Offline Tseralo

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2020, 03:00:02 pm »
That’s nettle entrance to the bottom of main rising.

I don’t think Russet Well is on the survex model but to swine hole would be 273.76m.


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Offline Mark Wright

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Re: Deepest cave in England
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2020, 03:09:08 pm »
I've not been to the bottom of Russet Well since I was a teenager but I think it was about 24.5m deep. Maybe Pitlamp has a better idea.

 

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