Author Topic: Keen but with no cause?  (Read 12214 times)

Offline caverholic

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Keen but with no cause?
« on: March 07, 2005, 10:45:15 pm »
SUSS have survived the troubled times of the usport reign, but have hit another barrier.
We had planned to head out to Matienzo over the summer but with the troubled out look thought we ought to have a back up plan.
( Wot students Plan? :shock: )

There has been many suggestions and we have decided organising our own expo in this short amount of time is unfeasible so we going to do big through trips or trips.

So this is just a request for any ideas and more so info about the trips.
One thought was Dent de Crolles in france or P.S.M. We aren't quite sure where you get permits and if you need them.


Look forward to the responses.

p.s. not to far flung we only have limited budget.

Offline AndyF

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2892
    • http://www.keyhole.org.uk
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2005, 11:40:05 pm »
Dent de Crolles is fantastic area, with three major through trips. I did it 10 years ago, and again last year.

Glaz-Guirs is a classic 8+ hour pull through. Glaz-Chevalier is harder, but perhaps better. I have surveys, and there is a downloadeable PDF guide book at:

http://www.alpesgeoconseil.com/Chartreuse/Speleo/Speleo.pdf

I can also give you details of a caver friendly gite to rent if you want.


The other place I would highly recommend is the Coumo D'Hyouernedo in Haut Garonne. Top quality streamway/SRT caving with minimal walk-ins. There is an excellent guide available that details the though routes.

Andy Foster
"Life's a pitch, then you fall down one..."

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2005, 05:28:08 am »
Dent de Crolles is indeed a great trip, but the true top/bottom is actually from P40 rather than Trou de Glaz, which used to be the deepest thru-trip in the world.  Glaz can also be done to Annette rather than Chevalier; emerging from Annette at night is pretty neat.  You could spend a week there.  Great surface karst on top too.

Another classic thru-trip is Raggejavreraige in Norway, probably the northernmost major cave in the world, emerging just at sea-level.  Not much else around there though.  You can take the ferry from Newcastle to Bergen, take along your own food to save some money.

Here in Canada Yorkshire Pot is a -386m deep thru trip, right next door to Gargantua, a thru-trip of about -250m.

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6212
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2005, 08:44:57 am »
How about the Diau through trip too - very close to the Dent De Croll,

You can do the Tanne de Bel Espoir - or the Trois Betas entrances.  Its a magnificent trip.

Think JH to Peak but much much bigger.

Offline AndyF

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2892
    • http://www.keyhole.org.uk
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2005, 12:03:44 pm »
Quote
Glaz can also be done to Annette rather than Chevalier; emerging from Annette at night is pretty neat


The route through Annette is supposedly quite loose, and at times can be blocked by collapse. It also misses out the superb 55m pitch.

We came out of Chevalier at dusk, and had an epic finding our way down to the cars, that were parked by the hospital....

Quote
Here in Canada Yorkshire Pot is a -386m deep thru trip


How accesable is Yorkshire Pot, would it be suitable for a "holiday" caving trip of a week duration..?  we tend to fly/cave these days, but as we are all turning into old f**ts we need more user friendly trips to do...
"Life's a pitch, then you fall down one..."

Offline Cumbrian Neil

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
    • Neil, Ellie, Hannah, & Iain's Adventures Online
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2005, 04:01:18 am »
Quote from: "ian mckenzie"
Here in Canada Yorkshire Pot is a -386m deep thru trip, right next door to Gargantua, a thru-trip of about -250m.


Where can I find good information on these caves?? I read the SUSS report from back in 1994... but there must be something else out there.  I noticed you [Iain McKenzie] had done the cave many years ago before it was a through trip... I'll bet that was an epic 18 hour trip!!

CN.
Boldly Going Nowhere

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2005, 05:42:31 am »
The standard pull-thru in Yorkshire Pot is thirteen pitches, the deepest of which is 40m, but there are other inter-entrance exchange trips possible in its 12km of passage.  Gargantua is a mostly horizontal 6km cave, the pull-thru is a simple five pitches with the deepest being 17m.  There are other caves in the area and the scenery is unbeatable, you could easily spend a pleasant week camped out here, anytime July thru September.  This is the original home of Canadian Rockies caving.  The hike in is mostly along a road with a steep bit at the end, two or three hours.  The area is two hours' drive from Calgary, which has good air connections to Britain.

You could also consider attending Speleofest, an annual week-long gathering of cavers held somewhere in western Canada, with a focus on original explorations.  The 2005 location is at the same place as last year, another couple hour's drive past the Yorkshire Pot area.  See www.caving.ab.ca/subweb for details of last year's Speleofest (not to be confused with an American event of the same name).  This year's event is July 29 - August 7.

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2005, 05:51:33 am »
C. Neil:  The best source of info on Canadian caves is our national journal The Canadian Caver, see http://www.cancaver.ca/pubs2/cc/ and click the link at the bottom for the Index.  Our local club is at www.caving.ab.ca and of course I'm happy to answer specific questions.

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2005, 05:58:50 am »
Quote from: "AndyF"
The route through Annette is supposedly quite loose, and at times can be blocked by collapse. It also misses out the superb 55m pitch.
I did DDC in 1990 with some Brit cavers; I remember that Annette ended thru a dig shored with highway guardrails.  We did both the P40-Guiers Mort pulldown and the Glaz-Annette side-to-side trip, plus a bottom-towards-top along the original Chevalier route from Guiers Mort up the modest stream passage as far as we could, so we saw quite a bit of the cave.  None of us had been in the cave before, and we didn't even have a survey - just a schematic drawing. :wink:

Offline Cumbrian Neil

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
    • Neil, Ellie, Hannah, & Iain's Adventures Online
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2005, 01:41:19 am »
Quote from: "ian mckenzie"
See www.caving.ab.ca/subweb for details of last year's Speleofest (not to be confused with an American event of the same name).  This year's event is July 29 - August 7.


It amazed me that the NSS held last year's convention in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan... an area completely devoid of significant caves!!  I read that this year's is going to be in Alabama (the home state of the NSS) and is more likely to include caving as they did in 2003 when it was held in Colorado.  Have you ever been to an NSS convention??

CN.

PS. How far is Northern Wisconsin to Calgary??
Boldly Going Nowhere

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2005, 06:46:54 am »
Well, I guess if there are cavers in Michigan, why not have a convention there.   These events are as much social gatherings as anything else.  Kind of like having a BCRA conference in Devon :?.   As I'm not American I don't normally go to NSS conventions, but went to California in 2003, and then only because I was asked to present on Peru.  But I am seriously considering the 2005 convention because it is in TAG country.

Canadians have no such Conventions - we focus our gatherings around caving, and original exploration at that.

To see how close Calgary is to northern Wisconsin, consult any map of the world; most cities of a million people show up as a dot with their name beside... :wink:  :wink: .

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6212
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2005, 08:29:55 am »
Back on to ideas for a SUSS holiday.

Try slovenia - the home of karst limestone. Fly easyjet to lubliana hire a car/van - get yourself to speleocamp

Awesome campsite, club house with big barbie, showers, kit washing area, drying room etc, owner is really friendly local caver who'll no doubt show you around the local caves (theres one in the field behind his house).

You have to book the campsite in advance as he only books it out to visiting clubs/groups.

Offline Cumbrian Neil

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
    • Neil, Ellie, Hannah, & Iain's Adventures Online
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2005, 01:03:01 am »
Quote from: "SamT"
Back on to ideas for a SUSS holiday.


I was giving SUSS ideas!!!  :lol:   Do you know how cheap it is for UK folks to visit the USA right now!!  Bush screwed up the interest rates.  Think outside the normal box  :shock:  !!

CN.
Boldly Going Nowhere

Offline Cumbrian Neil

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
    • Neil, Ellie, Hannah, & Iain's Adventures Online
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2005, 01:28:34 am »
Quote from: "ian mckenzie"
To see how close Calgary is to northern Wisconsin, consult any map of the world; most cities of a million people show up as a dot with their name beside... :wink:  :wink: .


Hmmm... I didn't realize that maps in the USA included Canada?  I thought it was a barren track of land populated by beavers, moose, and the odd French speaking fellow (well, at least in Quebec)!!   :lol: There ain't nothing wrong with a nice beaver either!!

Calgary is 1432.68 miles away according to MapQuest.  I am interested in getting on one of your exploratory trips at some point in the future even if SUSS isn't.

As for the SUSS old timers - A friend of mine went to Mallorca(??) last year to the Matienzo area... apparently there are lots of open cave there if you are willing to look for it as well as some established routes.  Stick to your plan... I guess Phil Pappard (CRO) now lives there permanently and is a good source of information.

CN.
Boldly Going Nowhere

Offline pisshead

  • stalker
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • SUSS
    • My PhD website
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2005, 01:07:36 pm »
i might be wrong., but there are problems with Matienzo - something to do with insurance and not allowing foreign cavers in due to a lack of organised cave rescue...

:(

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2005, 12:10:19 am »
Quote from: "Cumbrian Neil"
I am interested in getting on one of your exploratory trips at some point in the future even if SUSS isn't.

Well keep in touch, always glad to have company.  We did joint expeds with SUSS here in 1983 and 1984, and are happy to partner with individual cavers or more 'organized' groups from afar.

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2005, 01:12:24 am »
Quote from: "Cumbrian Neil"
[It amazed me that the NSS held last year's convention in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan... an area completely devoid of significant caves!!
So... anyone considering hopping the pond to attend the 2005 NSS Convention?  No shortage of easily-accessible caves in TAG country.

twllddu

  • Guest
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2005, 08:39:08 am »
Not this year.  Last time I got caught at US Customs with 6 pairs of new warmbac elbow pads, 6 pairs of elbow pads and 4 pairs of wet socks.  

I thought I was going to do 20 years hard labor for neoprene smuggling  :)

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2005, 02:13:48 am »
Quote from: "ian mckenzie"
You could also consider attending Speleofest, an annual week-long gathering of cavers held somewhere in western Canada, with a focus on original explorations. This year's event is July 29 - August 7.
 C. Neil: One of the three connectable caves in this area just broached -400m last weekend, and is still going (apparently it's getting slightly bigger).  The other two are each about -250m I think, and also going.  Could be a new Canadian depth record here...

Offline Cumbrian Neil

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
    • Neil, Ellie, Hannah, & Iain's Adventures Online
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2005, 02:08:45 am »
Quote from: "ian mckenzie"
One of the three connectable caves in this area just broached -400m last weekend, and is still going (apparently it's getting slightly bigger).  The other two are each about -250m I think, and also going.  Could be a new Canadian depth record here...


That's pretty impressive... we only lost our snow recently (two weeks ago)... that must make for some epic trips underground!!

CN.
Boldly Going Nowhere

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2005, 05:08:12 pm »
Quote from: "Cumbrian Neil"
we only lost our snow recently (two weeks ago)...

Lucky you.  The cave is still being accessed by snowmobile.  Next comes the mud; hiking access becomes easy by mid-June.

Offline ian mckenzie

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Alberta Speleological Society (Canada)
    • Karst Almighty
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2005, 04:54:09 am »
www.caving.ab.ca/speleofest
userid: caver
password: speleofest

angelmaz11

  • Guest
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2005, 09:22:33 pm »
Wow, it would be a fantastic experience to go to speleofest! Sadly I have no money.... :-(

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12255
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2005, 11:00:00 am »
It appears that there's no pub nearby either. Hmm, it looks like a cross between a Ray Mears' programme and a Caving symposium. Sounds impressive though but the expression "Middle of nowhere" does spring to mind.

Offline Joel Corrigan

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
    • Skytek Ltd
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2005, 09:20:16 pm »
Dear all.
It's truly heartwarming to see this much enthusiasm for expeditions but why ponce about in a known cave when you've got the opportunity to explore?  Took me years as a youngster to get invited on exploration trips and yet I offer that golden apple to anyone with motivation!  Most of you are aware of the legendary Dachstein Caving Expeditions in Austria, I assume?  We're heading off for a month from 9th July and take all sorts of wasters on the trip.  Group consists of seasoned veterans to students who've never left the country before (about 25 of us in total).  Objectives range from easily-accessible surface shafts to truly horrendous deep potholes.  Loads for everyone.  We split into small teams depending upon objectives.  Definitely not a tourist cave area but we're generally quite relaxed: if people want to prop up the bar that's fine.  Couple of caves where there could be buried treasure: will lend you a crow bar and send you off digging.  Yeah, right...

If anyone wants to come along then please get in touch as we always need more people.  Some of your mates may be going; so far the list of personnel is:
Cardiff Uni:- Ian, Rhys, Grace, Louis, Annie, Dave, Thom, Ruth, Matt, Alys, Jason, Pippa, Hannah, Daf, Bea.
Non-student cavers: Jim Cochrane (BEC), Martin Groves (SWCC/CDG), Mad Phil Rowsell (BEC), Rich Hudson (TSG/CDG), Sarah Phizacklea (Nelson Speleo Group), Joel Corrigan (er, none), Donald Rust, Louisa Rust, Clara Rust, Harlan Rust, Steffen Greschner (some German club), Peter Huebner, Clemence, Johann.

Give me a shout if you're interested.  Dirt cheap (£50) plus transport.  email to joel@skytek.uk.com

Come on: let's see how motivated the cavers of Britain are.

MSD

  • Guest
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2005, 10:08:20 pm »
What about going to the UIS congress in Greece? UIS usually arrange a load of field trips to different caves, and you get to cave with lots of interesting people from around the world.

Or hook up with Southampton Uni in Austria, I think they put out an open invite for some more participants.

Offline Joel Corrigan

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
    • Skytek Ltd
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2005, 11:19:08 pm »
Er, think I was just recruiting for the Austrian expedition, wasn't I?  Southampton Uni are (or have been) a part of the Dachstein Caving Expedition: they don't have their own project out there.  Over the last few years the clubs involved have been: Cardiff Uni, Southampton Uni, Portsmouth Uni, Reading Uni, BEC, TSG, SWCC, CDG, plus loads more that I can't remember.  Hope that's cleared up.

MSD

  • Guest
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2005, 08:16:56 am »
Sorry,  had the window open for ages and your post crossed with mine!

Offline Joel Corrigan

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
    • Skytek Ltd
Dachstein Expedition
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2006, 12:51:42 pm »
Well, last time I posted something on this site about the Dachstein Expedition I was inundated with interested expedition cavers - NOT!  Well, never one to give up easily let's try again...

Dates not fixed yet but probably a month-long period in July and August '06.  This is one of the premier regions of Austria with some of the biggest potential in the world.  To give you an idea, the resurgence for the Hirlatz Hole (93km long, 1.1km deep, single entrance) is at 500m altitude, the current 600m deep cave we're pushing is at 2100m altitude, giving us a depth potential of 1.6km.  As if that weren't enough, the mountain range goes up to 3000m, and the realistic depth potential of the area is a staggering 2.5km!  

Pushing the deep caves is hard and requires fitness & experience.  However, there are countless shallower caves and surface shafts that are ideal sites for people to gain skills.  We organise workshops before departure covering areas such as surveying, rigging, emergencies etc..  Cost is minimal and the rewards are great.  The keener you are the more you'll get out of it.  Tend to camp at remote cave entrances but we've got a couple of huts in the mountains so pretty luxurious.

We're the only team pushing a huge mountain range and we need more people.  Every year we have upwards of 25 cavers of all abilities but it's not enough.  Our team is a mixture of students, grizzled veterans, and pub athletes so there's a place for all.  During the winter we push the Hirlatz itself as it's a only possible when the mountains are frozen.  There are approximately four or five regular big European projects being undertaken by the Brits so if anyone wants to get involved or just wants to know more before they commit then please get in touch on joel@skytek.uk.com

This is the ideal project for any uni clubs out there wanting to join an exped en-masse.

Cheers,
Joel Corrigan

Offline hell little caver

  • stalker
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
  • swcc girly, BEC, Suss and CDG groupie
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2006, 01:05:55 pm »
experdition oh sounds good would love to do somthing new need to train a bit tho!

Offline Joel Corrigan

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
    • Skytek Ltd
Dachstein Caving Expedition
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2006, 09:50:27 am »
Some information for the terminally bored.
Exped dates: Weekend of 7th July til 6th August.  
Come for a few weeks or a month.
Those coming this year: Lots of old gits like me; Cardiff Uni, Reading Uni, Southampton Uni, Aberystwyth Uni, plus a few more individual students and real people.  Expecting about thirty this year over the whole period.
Objectives:
Pig Pen 2: 450m deep pothole, wide open, awkward.
Gowling Hale: 600m deep, bit of a beast, need to camp, undescended shaft, depth potential 1.7km.
M54: our local cave, quite civilised, <200m deep, wide, wide open at end.
Trouserfiller: ring-twitching site involving abseiling over 800m high cliff to pendulum into entrance.  Very exciting.
Hidden Hole: Nasty, hard cave c.400m deep but we're not pushing the end; going for some shallower leads.
Dozens of other caves need pushing and that's why we need a big team.
As I've probably stated before, the caving can be as hard or as easy as you want to make it.  Pushing the limits of the deep caves can be appallingly difficult but exploring the shallower sites is within everyone's grasp.  
Newcomers to expedition caving are very welcome as we despise the elitist elements prevalent in some of the expedition circles.  Lots of training events organised over next couple of months.  
Get in touch via the forum or contact me on joel@skytek.uk.com

hoehlenforscher

  • Guest
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2006, 12:06:38 pm »
Quote
Trouserfiller: ring-twitching site involving abseiling over 800m high cliff to pendulum into entrance.


Is that the one above the Hirlatz Hoehle entrance!!! No way you would get me going over the edge :shock:

I am guessing you must be the same Joel that I met for a trip down DYO some years back together with Tim Mclean. I think I may have a roll of dive cord from Tims place that might belong to you!

Mark

Offline Joel Corrigan

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
    • Skytek Ltd
Keen but with no cause?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2006, 08:51:18 pm »
Hi Mark.
Sorry not to have replied for months but I get there in the end...  I've got a crap memory but have vague recollections of a mate of Tim's being down DYO as I was climbing an aven.  Was that you?  In fact it must be as I have a feeling that you were part of the support crew for one of the big diving trips to Sahara in the west of the Hirlatz a few years back?
Regarding the cave entrance: we call it Trouserfiller but the Austrians call in Bruschenworst hoehle or similar.  Can never remember.  And yes, it is the one in the cliffs 800m above te entrance to the Hirlatz.  Awesome location for a bloody cave.  We're off again on the 5th July for a month.  Will be a cast of hundreds: Cardiff Uni, Reading Uni, Aberystwyth Uni (sp?), Southampton Uni, BEC, CDG, etc..  Month in the mountains for me with a clipboard!