UK Caving

OTHER STUFF => Idle Chat => Topic started by: yrammy on June 08, 2019, 09:51:31 am

Title: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: yrammy on June 08, 2019, 09:51:31 am
Bear Grylls OBE discuss.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: cavemanmike on June 08, 2019, 11:24:39 am
 ::) ::) They'll give them to anyone.
Next thing you know you will be able to get one in a lucky bag(if you remember what one of those are).
Why give an obe to a BRAND.
After all that's all that he is
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Badlad on June 08, 2019, 11:25:40 am
Good and bad.  Apparently he has raised the profile of the scouts and his approach is attractive to young people.  On the other hand his way of doing things really winds other people up.  His trip to Long Churn in flood being one example.

I wouldn't give him an OBE if it were my choice.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: The Old Ruminator on June 08, 2019, 12:28:41 pm
Is his real name Norman Scuttlethwaite ? ::)
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Wolfo on June 08, 2019, 02:21:04 pm
Typical media tart.
Mostly helpless on the rock, there are some pretty funny climbing videos, showing a world of make-believe (hidden top ropes etc.).
Same to caving I assess.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Pitlamp on June 08, 2019, 02:50:07 pm
He does use the facade to benefit charities a great deal. Give credit where it's due.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: richardg on June 08, 2019, 07:33:43 pm
Bear Grylls is one of our great achievers.
It is something I've never been able to reason, the envy that some people feel for other people who do better than them.
Its like the gang of bullies at school who pick on those who work hard towards their future.
Bear Grylls has likewise dedicated his life to bettering himself, and using his fame to raise millions to enable others to have a better life....
Because someone aspires to fame......
Because someone does monumental work for charities....
Is a reason to celebrate.
Congratulations Bear Grylls.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Graigwen on June 08, 2019, 10:23:16 pm
On the way to Ogof Draenen from the south.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11409438@N06/48026532417/in/album-72157679947221496/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11409438@N06/48026532417/in/album-72157679947221496/)

(https://www.flickr.com/photos/11409438@N06/48026532417/in/album-72157679947221496/)
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: cavemanmike on June 08, 2019, 10:30:16 pm
I've seen and know many adventurers who are a lot more realistic in their approach to safety.especially when televised,f you glorify it without showing the SAFETY behind it you are asking for trouble.
On a caving aspect you just wouldn't do it.
Or am I just being a tw*t
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Graigwen on June 08, 2019, 10:44:24 pm
Is his real name Norman Scuttlethwaite ? ::)

In defence of Mr Grylls I must say that I believe his birth surname to be Grylls, even if he has adopted a flambuoyant forename for some purpose.

His father was Sir Michael Grylls, disgraced Conservative MP involved in the "cash in brown envelopes" affair with my old friend Neil Hamilton, another disgraced former Conservative MP.

His father was described in the pages of "The Independant" 4th July 1997 Sleaze Report:-

"Sir Michael Grylls:

A former Royal Marine and son of a brigadier, he served as a Conservative MP for 27 years until he stood down in May, aged 63. Most recently was member for Surrey North West.

The charges: That he was regularly paid by Ian Greer, and he abused his position on the parliamentary trade and industry committee to make profits. He failed to note his relationship with Mr Greer on the Register of Members' Interests and lied to the select committee on members' interests in 1990.

Downey verdict: Sir Michael took non-cash payments from Mr Greer, though it was not possible to conclude that they originated from Mr Fayed. However, he did actively participate in lobbying campaigns organised by Mr Greer.

The MP deliberately misled the select committee on members' interests in 1990 when he seriously understated the number of commission payments he had received. He also omitted to inform them of other fees he received from Mr Greer.

Sir Gordon was particularly critical of Sir Michael's failure to tell the committee about his full dealings with Mr Greer.

The committee's report, which concluded that there had been "no clear infringement of the rules," would have been quite different if it had known all the facts, he said.

"In his evidence Sir Michael had omitted altogether to refer to the direct, regular payments received from Mr Greer or Ian Greer Associates which had the effect of putting Sir Michael on an annual, but undisclosed, retainer with the lobbying organisation. I believe the concealment was deliberate."

Sir Gordon also concluded that when meeting ministers and officials to talk about the affairs of the House of Fraser, Sir Michael persistently failed to declare his interest in Mr Fayed's affairs.

Sir Michael also accepted a commission payment from Mr Greer for introducing him to Charles Church, whose property company had its headquarters in his constituency. This was unacceptable, though there was insufficient evidence to show that Sir Michael solicited business for Mr Greer in expectation of commission payments."
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Boy Engineer on June 08, 2019, 11:08:37 pm
So what? I'm not in the least interested in what his father may or may not have done. Is this playing the ball, or the man?

Maybe we all need to look to ourselves, rather than reaching for a stone..... I'm not a fan of the honours system, particularly, but am not sure that we do much to further the cause of humanity by being snippy about folk who choose to play that game, often out of respect for the unsung backroom staff who deserve thanks, but don't always get it.

Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: The Old Ruminator on June 09, 2019, 08:51:16 am
I have no feelings either way about B. G.  I do have feelings about visual deceit. Some TV is so contrived its laughable. I remember an adventure documentary where folk were on a river in the jungle when the boat engine failed.  "Oh dear how shall we get out " they wailed. It then occurred to me that just behind them must have been a bigger boat full of film crew, production staff, medics and ample supplies of food. Oh yes all those sandwiches and bottled water we lugged into The Frozen Deep for three minutes of The One Show. Diving docs are even worse. They usually film the " pre dive planning " after the dive has taken place. All marries up well then but they just have to go over the top re the danger of it all. In the old days they covered my bottle digging. Just bring down your best stuff and pretend to dig it up they said. We did. The Coopers Hole Time Team film was a joke. A tiny bit of marked bone amongst the car tyres " proved " that the cave was home to early man. It probably washed in.  Media does have to play with the truth otherwise it does not work. How far you go with that is the question.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: AR on June 09, 2019, 09:50:15 am
I am reminded of something my late grandfather told me about honours; he was put forward for one when he retired from a senior position at the Admiralty's research facility in Sheffield (long since closed) but refused it. He said that "MBE stands for My Bloody Effort, OBE stands for Other Bugger's Effort"....
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: owd git on June 09, 2019, 09:51:23 am
On balance of screen 'evidence', and stress deliberately induced in victims for effect; would you want grilled bear at the event horizon, rigging?  :beer2:

I'll get my coat!
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Jopo on June 09, 2019, 10:16:43 am
Love him or hate him as you wish. The fault is not his but a honor system which ranks the like of the architect of the 'hostile environment' (Knight Commander of the Order of Bath) with those who genuinely deserve recognition as true servants of the community.

Jopo
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: darren on June 09, 2019, 12:14:26 pm
If the caving world had their very own Bear Grylls, we could stop all this shit arguing.over access rights, youth policy's and young cavers in general.

We would have so many youngsters beating a path to caveing  that  any problems would be quickly solved.

So who on here is willing to be the caveing Bear Grylls?

Don't expect to much help or understanding of the compromises you have to make.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: royfellows on June 09, 2019, 09:23:12 pm
There may be hope yet
Lazerbeam Productions who I worked with at Cwmystwyth will be filming Martyn Farr and me at Dinas Silica mine for a forthcoming "Hidden Wales".

Martyn will do the diving, I will be doing the talking, each what we are good at.
 :lol:
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: darren on June 10, 2019, 09:15:54 am
 Bear Fellows, has a certain ring to it 😁
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: beardedboy on June 10, 2019, 09:22:09 am
Grylls is his real surname. He studied at Eaton and was later in the SAS reserves where he was trained for unarmed combat.

The 'real' SAS guys call the toffs with no combat role 'Ruperts', a polite but derogatory term.

He was a clear Rupert, it was also clear that he was a bit of a softy. Therefore, he was awarded the nickname derived from Rupert the Bear. It stuck.

Needless to say, in the right circles Bear is not seen as a macho name!

Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: crickleymal on June 10, 2019, 05:58:13 pm
I thought Rupert was general army slang for an officer.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: langcliffe on June 10, 2019, 07:25:04 pm
He was a clear Rupert, it was also clear that he was a bit of a softy. Therefore, he was awarded the nickname derived from Rupert the Bear. It stuck.

According to Wikipedia, "Grylls has one sibling, an elder sister, Lara Fawcett, who gave him the nickname 'Bear' when he was a week old.".

And softies don't survive in the SAS Territorials. You may remember the story of the three that died in the time trial march in the Brecon Beacons six years ago.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Pitlamp on June 10, 2019, 07:30:34 pm
They don't generally summit Everest either . . .
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Ian Ball on June 10, 2019, 07:35:35 pm
Did he summit Everest after the parachute accident that crushed his vertebrae?
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Damo on June 10, 2019, 09:09:56 pm
Grylls is his real surname. He studied at Eaton and was later in the SAS reserves where he was trained for unarmed combat.

The 'real' SAS guys call the toffs with no combat role 'Ruperts', a polite but derogatory term.

He was a clear Rupert, it was also clear that he was a bit of a softy. Therefore, he was awarded the nickname derived from Rupert the Bear. It stuck.

Needless to say, in the right circles Bear is not seen as a macho name!
As Crickleymal said, Rupert is army slang for an officer. REMF is the term used by frontline soldiers to describe other soldiers with cushy jobs at the rear.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: dugadig on June 10, 2019, 10:43:37 pm
He's got the time and the money and a fair set of testicles.. I won't knock him.  :-\
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: SamT on June 10, 2019, 11:26:00 pm
I think my problem with him is that he's from a very very wealthy background, (you have to be, to summit everest these days).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7Kq_piJsN4&feature=youtu.be

and he's used exceptionally 'sensationalised', contrived and down right fake versions of the great outdoor past times (climbing/caving/exploring/survival) to launch and then further his 'celebrity' career and status.

Over inflated prima dona if ever there was one.

A lot of his early stuff was just bollocks, and down right dangerous like the caving one:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O70Tansyvc4

where he suggests that the thing to do, when lost in the jungle and you've decided the only way out is via a underground streamway that has come to an end at a sump, is to take a big gulp of air and just free dive into the unknown #oneliveliveit #letsoffroad #nofear #gungho etc).  Hope that episode didn't 'inspire' any youths to follow suit (thinking of Dead Scout sump in Bagshawe)

This climbing one is pure bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t0mJ63Y8WM

All this eating cow dung and raw badger testicles is pure bullshit too.  Bet Ray Mears would rustle you up a 2 michelin star meal given the same habitat and area to forage. 

https://twitter.com/jimllpaintit/status/472074821711699968

Ever wondered why BMC insurance skyrocketed - http://lifeinthevertical.co.uk/blogs/2009/07/bear-grylls-the-bmc-and-us/

So I'm sorry, I have very little respect for the bloke to be honest. I dont think he's got particularly large cajones and has just conned the world into thinking so.

The OBE will open some more doors to funding for his charade I guess, he must be well chuffed.


Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Rachel on June 11, 2019, 07:11:20 am
If the caving world had their very own Bear Grylls, we could stop all this shit arguing.over access rights, youth policy's and young cavers in general.

We would have so many youngsters beating a path to caveing  that  any problems would be quickly solved.

So who on here is willing to be the caveing Bear Grylls?

Don't expect to much help or understanding of the compromises you have to make.

I beg to differ. My daughter is a caver and a scout in a caving area and from what she reports, her fellow scouts consider Bear Grylls to be a complete idiot and an embarrassment to scouting and caving.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: ZombieCake on June 11, 2019, 10:52:17 am
Quote
would you want grilled bear at the event horizon
I suppose it depends on what sort of event horizon.  The one at the edge of a black hole maybe.  M87 is quite popular at present so maybe a chance for a bit of a media show there.  This would of course involve being blasted into space. No hotels there if it gets a bit tough though...
What concerns me is the recklessness of some of his activities for media sensationalism that appear to convey that it's the correct way to do things.  Drinking your own wee is a surefire way to increase dehydration, and as someone posted above, the caving stuff is rather concerning.
Still if was an OBE for brand development (not forgetting all that 'quality' Gerber stuff), raking in cash, and staying in hotels then maybe there's a case.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: richardg on June 11, 2019, 12:16:27 pm
Quote from Sam 
:coffee:
" Hope that episode didn't 'inspire' any youths to follow suit (thinking of Dead Scout sump in Bagshawe)"

Sorry to highlight this Sam.

But it seems a bit of a  statement to suggest the Bear Grylls Adventure TV series had anything to do with Mark Dowset's death in Bagshawe Cavern.This tragic occurance was in 1985 (I know as I was there during the attempted rescue)

Bear Grylls himself was only born in 1974 that makes him eleven at the time of the incident...
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: SamT on June 11, 2019, 12:28:11 pm
I know perfectly well when the incident was (I was 13 at the time and living in Castleton).

Perhaps I should have worded it "Hope that episode doesn't 'inspire' any youths to follow suit (thinking of Dead Scout sump in Bagshawe"
But then its quite an old episode, hence the past tense.

Its quite plausible that the some youth getting 'inspired' by Grylls goes out and copies him.  His coverage comes across as  'look at me, I'm an expert in this field and this is how you do it'.

Its arguable that Bear doesn't really inspire any youth to get our there and get stuck in outdoors, more likely they'd be thinking - "he's a nutter, that looks grim and horrible and you wouldn't catch me doing that" before retreating to their playstations.

Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: richardg on June 11, 2019, 01:58:31 pm
Thank you Sam for clarifying that.....
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: owd git on June 11, 2019, 03:46:17 pm
Quote
would you want grilled bear at the event horizon
I suppose it depends on what sort of event horizon.  The one at the edge of a black hole maybe.  M87 is quite popular at present so maybe a chance for a bit of a media show there.  This would of course involve being blasted into space. No hotels there if it gets a bit tough though...
What concerns me is the recklessness of some of his activities for media sensationalism that appear to convey that it's the correct way to do things.  Drinking your own wee is a surefire way to increase dehydration, and as someone posted above, the caving stuff is rather concerning.
Still if was an OBE for brand development (not forgetting all that 'quality' Gerber stuff), raking in cash, and staying in hotels then maybe there's a case.

event horizon/ Titan!!  :beer2:
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: Moose on June 11, 2019, 04:55:45 pm
I don't want anything to do with it!
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: ttxela2 on June 12, 2019, 04:16:56 pm
Didn't some unfortunate fellow die in Scotland as a result of a BG inspired venture? Not underground but a survive out on the moors type of thing.

Whether its fair to blame him for that though I'm not sure  :-\

As a chap who prefers his adventure on the mild side it's a little irritating that he makes everything so darned unpleasant. It's possible to have a rather nice day on the hills or underground and experience nothing worse than some gentle exertion and possible slightly damp socks.

It's also not that difficult to remember to make some sandwiches and a flask of tea before you set out.

I suppose that does not make for such compelling viewing though.
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: SamT on June 12, 2019, 05:30:54 pm
such compelling irritating viewing though.

fixed that for you
Title: Re: Bear Grylls OBE
Post by: alastairgott on June 12, 2019, 05:42:09 pm
I think they call TV like watching someone making a flask of tea and some sandwiches "slow TV".

Perhaps we could make one of people surveying a cave... Might be quite therapeutic?  :blink: