Croesor-Rhosydd trip.

[wormster]

PS. Best not let them know we had our SRT kit on in the boats as well.  :

numpty you just did,

mind you so did I when I last went,

need it to get out of the boat and up the 15' climb before dekitting at the shrine and entering rhosydd.

 

[menacer]

WTF's going on? - I make a useful/helpful observation and this happens.

Anyone ever wonder why I got fucked off with C&A? - yep; being helpful results in getting it in the neck.

Nothing is "going On" I just happened to think that on this trip, there are more relevant issues to be dealing with other than a poxy Ickle rucksack on someones back over water with a zip wire and a safety line......Get over it.......(really  it is more likely the roof is gonna land on your head than 2 lines break....you must agree or you'd be using 2 lifelines on the 20 in Swildons)

Most people looked at the vid and said "wow cool trip....looks fun....you all had a great time....blah blah......
You look at it and suggest an alternative way of doing it, thats fine....but dont get all huffy if I disagree.Its only an opinion.. (im not saying your suggestion wasnt valid, i just thought it OTT on this trip....im sure others would agree with both of us)

BTW and this is only my opinion....sometimes...the way you word things makes it sound more of a critisism than a suggestion.....sometimes people just like to write or show a trip report without having techniques disected and analysed....sometimes its ok to say NOTHING.

But really nothing is going on.....although I will admit to being a tad sarcastic....not big not clever....sorry

In answer to your question ...I never wondered why you got so beeped of with C&A....you put yourself in the limelight expect to get shot from time to time....I'm fully expecting to get my arse kicked a few times now ive waded into the cscc political pool... arghhhh (not saying its right, its just the way it is)

 

[cap n chris]

Thanks for your considered response, M! - I guess in future I'll need to caveat comments up front so people know whether or not I'm making a suggestion or being critical (mind you, I reckon when I am being critical there's not a lot of doubt!  ). Heyho.

BTW sarcasm is one of my favourite things. No, really. It is. Honest. Yeah, sure. Really. It is.

 

[Hatstand]

Memo to self....keep sandwiches under Hat....

I'll squash `em... 

As for drowning etc the first couple of times I did the trip the WBOD(tm) had no decent safety lines across it, or steel cables or independent anchors as there are now, just some dodgy bits of twine (often worn through to the core) which were firmly tied to large rotting/rusting bits. We decided we didn't like the idea of being tied/clipped in any way to aforementioned heavy bits and crossed unattached, but with a long rope trailing down to the water so that if you did fall in your mate could pull you to the surface, tie off, and watch you prusik back up in soggy, poop filled clothes 

To be honest, crossing in a boat, or any of the trip, the rucksack thing is a bit of a false alarm - I think I'll drown anyway in heavy boots, SRT gear etc etc

So - I propose the zip wires etc should be crossed without SRT kit wearing only speedos... ...oh but wait then you'll freeze... erm er er

OH FUCKIT LETS JUST GO THE PUB 

 

[SamT]

Looks to me to be getting a bit over-sanitized tbh.

quite agree bubs. Im not knocking the riggers - seems they've put a lot of work in.

However - looking at some of the photos of recent trips, I'd say people are starting to take this trip a bit lightly.

If you equip it all really well - then you are going to attact folks who are under equiped for the environment.

CRTT can now be done pretty much in a boiler suit, Petzl tikka, harness - cows tail, pully and descender.
(Providing your going to risk there being a functioning boat available. )

We did it in 2002 and it had a bit of reputation at the time. There where only the Ogoffa web pages and ChrisJC's site to go on, I did a lot of digging around - got hold of a survey from somewhere. We planned for every eventuallity.

wetsuits, inner tubes, SRT kit, pulleys, replacement static for the abs, bolting kit, bit of free climbing gear, video and camera kit.

At the time - we did not know there about the steel cable over Bridge 2 or the 2nd bit of T.B.O.D. and we'd heard rumours of collapses blocking the way on, but fully kitted up we where confident we could over come almost anything.

And we had to, Having replaced the rope on the aps - including putting in some backup bolts we found that the way on *had* been blocked by collapse.

We essentially 'onsited' the lake crossing on innertubes, in the hope that the connecting tunnel did as we expected. It did to our releif (non of us fancied jummaring back up the ab ropes) and we where off and running,

full trip report here Croesor Rhosydd

In a very round about way - what Im trying to say, is that by kitting it out so well, most people will leave behind all the the extranious kit, and go lightweight. But if anything, absolutley anything, goes wrong, your in a most serious situation. pretty much trapped in the middle.

Treat Croesor - Rhosydd with the respect it deserves. It wouldnt suprise me if someone comes a cropper soon in that place.

(.....still really want to go back and do it again though  ).

 

[wormster]

Treat Croesor - Rhosydd with the respect it deserves. It wouldnt suprise me if someone comes a cropper soon in that place

Quite right Sam, the place with all its fancy rigging is still somewhere that IF it goes "tits up" you're gunna be in BIG trouble.

Otherwise like you I can't wait to re visit and play.

 

[vanoord]

A smilar set of comments have been posted on DarkPlaces about the sanitising of this trip! There seem to be two counter arguments:
- it's been made easier, hence people who are less prepared can do it, thus raising the chance of accidents
- the trip has more publicity these days due to t'interweb, therefore it needs to be safer in order to reduce the chance of accidents

From my way of looking at it, there's no problem with reducing the risk of equipment failure, eg re-anchoring the second abseil: there's plenty of possibilities to break yourself without having the added complication that the boulder that was being used as an anchor was somewhat lacking in rope protectors and had no effective back-up. Similarly, adding a safety rope at the top of the first abseil for people to clip into reduces the odds of someone tripping and plummeting, yet leaves intact the occasional rub-point and those rather interestingly loose boulders that the uninitiated kick off against halfway down.

The big zipwire and the ladder bridge replace a tunnel that's now blocked, so they don't detract from the trip, apart from that short time before it was rigged. I've grown rather fond of the zipwire and anyway, it still has the ability to bite - I'm aware of at least one person who has gone splat into the far wall. I'm less convinced about the zip that bypasses the traverse, hence the plan to bolt the traverse and rig it with a newer fixed rope. I'm not going to go so far as to suggest the zip be removed, but it is, imho, a step in the wrong direction.

The zip over the second half of the Bridge of Death? Well, hooking up to it is possibly the most tricky bit of the trip, but I can see the argument that it was more 'fun' to use the remaining brige support. I suspect that beam won't last that much longer anyway, so it's going to be the only option sooner or later. Besides, the wire seems to have been there for five years or so, which makes it a pretty permanent fixture.

The lake (Chamber of Horrors) is - thankfully - still the same old monster that it always has been. One of the north Wales regulars had an interesting experience with a rapidly deflating dinghy a few months back and ended up swimming the last bit.

And finally, the way out... I've been in a lot of slate mines in north Wales and I'll hapily admit that the squeeze to get out at the Rhosydd end is in my top three most scary bits. I suspect this is going to be the bit that falls and blocks the trip for good, hopefully not with me underneath it!


Whether people are taking the trip more lightly I don't know. For my part, I think the trip requires the usual SRT kit plus a selection of slings, pulleys, extra krabs and at least one additional rope of 50-60m - not to mention a couple of spare dinghies. The simple rule of thumb has got to be to assume that you may get to the Rhosydd end and plan for the eventuality that the way out is blocked, meaning you have to do the whole thing backwards, with a punctured dinghy and the possiblity that one of the bridges or zips has fallen in the meantime.

The last time I was in there, we were overtaken by a guy doing the trip on his own, with only the kit that was hanging from his harness. In my humble opinion, this is not a good idea at all: one day this trip will bite someone badly and it's either going to be because they've not got enough kit, or because they're not being sensible.

 

[ChrisJC]

I rather suspect that under equipped eejits will always do the trip, and the accidents will happen to the best equipped. How ironic will that be?

One time we were down there (probably around 2000, i.e. before any sanitising), two climbers came past us. They had SRT gear, and petzl headtorches. No helmets, boats, rope, backup. Zero safety margin. If that was going on then, I'm sure it still goes on now with it's wider publicity.

Chris.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

We did it about 10 years ago where the only aids were manky ropes down the pitches and an equally manky rope set up as a tyrollean traverse accross the missing bridge. We did it by straddling the wobbly rails and nailed beam with a lifeline being held from the other side. It is worth noting that on this trip, the guy who was carrying the dingy fell THROUGH one of the bridges after straying away from the side towards the middle and fell about 10feet into deep water, his light being switched off as he passed through the bridge. Luckily he was wearing a wetsuit and was extracted using the lifeline rope (lucky he wasn't carrying that as well)

A few months afterwards I was involved in the rescue of two one way cavers who had attempted the trip with no gear. Apparantly they had done a 'classic' abseil down the pitches and became stuck when they didn't fancy crossing the bridges.

 

[bubba]

The last time I was in there, we were overtaken by a guy doing the trip on his own,

There's no way i'd go in that place on my own 

 

[bubba]

A few months afterwards I was involved in the rescue of two one way cavers who had attempted the trip with no gear. Apparantly they had done a 'classic' abseil down the pitches and became stuck when they didn't fancy crossing the bridges.

Well that has got to be one of the most stupid things ever. I advocate the death penalty

 

[ChrisJC]

They should have been nominated for the Darwin award!

Chris.

 

[Langthwaite Pot]

Two of us did this trip on Saturday and were a bit surprised to find that the bridge over the second lake was lying at the bottom of the lake! I suspect that somebody's sabotaged it, but it could have been belay failure. Since there were no other ropes across the lake I presume we were the first group there since it happened. Fortunately for us we were wearing 5mm wetsuits and in my case fins, so it caused no more than a refreshing dip! We've attached a bit of old climbing rope across the pool at water level to assist any other swimmers.

Personally I'm in agreement with those who think that the zip wires etc. shouldn't be there. Although the trip is technically very straightforward it's clearly not the place for t-shirt wearing muppets! It'd also be nice if people removed there dingys once they've trashed them

Anyway, it still provides an excellent few hours entertainment for those that know what they're doing

George.

 

[vanoord]

Do you mean the ladder bridge?

Oh dearie me.

 

[Langthwaite Pot]

Yep. Like I said I didn't see it before it sunk, so I don't know exactly whats happened to it!

 

[vanoord]

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/supersize/Croesor-Rhosydd-Through-Trip-23-07-2006-Image-011/

Is it attached at either end still?

 

[Langthwaite Pot]

Yes, it's still attached at the Rhosydd end. It should be possible to drag it out I imagine, keeping your fingers crossed that it doesn't snag on anything! It'll take a fair bit of work to re-attach it though - there was only one bolt left on the Croesor side - I assume there was previously more.

 

[bubba]

Or just detach it and let it sink

 

[stma]

zip wires etc. shouldn't be there

etc?????
I can see that people would think the bridge is a little OTT but the zip line does no harm really.
A bit of light relief after/before all the terror

 

[vanoord]

I can see that people would think the bridge is a little OTT but the zip line does no harm really.
A bit of light relief after/before all the terror

If I may bung in my tuppence-worth and potentially upset a few of you 

This isn't a natural cave, but a man-made mine - so the conventional ethics of underground rigging don't apply. I'll entirely agree that structures like this bridge shouldn't be installed in natural caves, but I think this is a very different case and that it can be justified. (That isn't a dig at cavers btw!).

Significantly, there are a pair of 80' abseils and a zip wire required just to get to this bridge. If you're not confident about descending or are lacking a pulley, you're not going to get to it. Furthermore, it's past what i'd consider to be the most dangerous bit of the trip. I don't agree with the idea that the trip should be made any more challenging on the basis that it would dissuade people. All that's going to achieve is for people to go in and find the trip is more difficult than they expected due to lack of fixtures and then get into trouble.

As far as this bridge is concerned, it gets people round a collapsed section of the 'original' or 'traditional' route and I'd argue that on this basis it's not detrimental to the trip - indeed, I'd go with the comments of the guy who originally rigged it:

For the history books the Zip wire and suspension bridge was installed in Jan of 2005 and the other rigging was installed to make things a little safer: the other zip wire across the free hanging bridge was installed 12 years ago and because i visit the mine regularly remains in good nick.

The intention of the suspension bridge was to create a little bit of tension by deliberately making touch the water and rigged quite loosely. ... My close friend and I wanted to give the fantastic adventure a few more surprises without taking away the challenging aspect of the trip.

For one, I respect that attitude as it has obviously been backed up with a lot of time - and money - spent on rigging the bridge. I think that sort of dedication deserves support even if the concept doesn't sit entirely perfectly with our own beliefs.