"The Economic Miracle of China" Is the pollution worth it?

[whitelackington]

Question why are hundreds of thousands of migrants coming to The U.K.
Why do they not go to China :-\

They come here to get jobs picking fruit or cockels

Or not, as the case may be.

but it is not sustainable for very long, is it. :-\

Neither, The Chinese economic expansion
(Two new, large, coal fired power stations coming on line every week)

Nor us having a never ending number of economic migrants entering The U.K.

 

[whitelackington]

The Economic Miracle of China  is the pollution worth it :-\

Three quarters of a million die each year in China alone from their pollution
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6265098.stm

We are of coursre also to blaim, we buy their goods at slave wage rates so we can idle in over abundance

 

[cap n chris]

.... i.e. less than one-twentieth of one percent. Probably a lower mortality rate from pollution than we have here and in the rest of Europe. What a clean country China appears to be. We should emulate it.

 

[whitelackington]

.... i.e. less than one-twentieth of one percent. Probably a lower mortality rate from pollution than we have here and in the rest of Europe. What a clean country China appears to be. We should emulate it.

You must have slipped off your trolley Captain.
If "we" emulated them,
the end of the world would be nigh
one hell of a lot sooner!

 

[cap n chris]

I clearly hadn't thought it through.

 

[whitelackington]

Now Worlds greatest polluter, two years ahead of prediction 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06252007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/china__worlds_polluter_ama_opedcolumnists_peter_brookes.htm

Overall, China has 16 of the world's 20 most air-polluted cities. In some, the air carries twice the pollutants considered safe by the U.N.'s World Health Organization, causing as many as 400,000 premature deaths a year due to respiratory disease.

The World Bank has called north-central China's coal town Linfen the world's most polluted city. Coal dust hangs so heavy in the air there that cars need to use their headlights during the day.

In Beijing, the unofficial air quality index is known as the "building index." That is, how many buildings you can see down the street before the landscape turns to a pea soup-like gray fog.

Coal is the main source of those pollution "exports''; China is the world's largest producer and consumer, relying on the fuel for 70 percent of its energy/industrial needs. And coal-fired plants emit carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide, mercury and dust. China already produces 25 percent of world mercury emissions and 12 percent of CO2.

And the pollution problem is on track to get worse.

Beijing plans to build 50 to 100 new coal-burning power plants a year - that's one a week - until 2012. That expansion will outstrip all the possible gains envisioned under the Kyoto environmental treaty.

 

[whitelackington]

The area around the Olympic site in China has pollution three times higher than safe.
Some games may not happen next year if the pollution stays at this level.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7061253.stm

 

[cap n chris]

What's the air like in London? 2012 may have similar problems.

I don't think China has the monopoly on air pollution.

 

[whitelackington]

What's the air like in London? 2012 may have similar problems.

I don't think China has the monopoly on air pollution.

I don't go to London,
I prefer Somerset.

 

[Downer]

Now Worlds greatest polluter, two years ahead of prediction   

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06252007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/china__worlds_polluter_ama_opedcolumnists_peter_brookes.htm

Overall, China has 16 of the world's 20 most air-polluted cities. In some, the air carries twice the pollutants considered safe by the U.N.'s World Health Organization, causing as many as 400,000 premature deaths a year due to respiratory disease.

The World Bank has called north-central China's coal town Linfen the world's most polluted city. Coal dust hangs so heavy in the air there that cars need to use their headlights during the day.

In Beijing, the unofficial air quality index is known as the "building index." That is, how many buildings you can see down the street before the landscape turns to a pea soup-like gray fog.

Coal is the main source of those pollution "exports''; China is the world's largest producer and consumer, relying on the fuel for 70 percent of its energy/industrial needs. And coal-fired plants emit carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide, mercury and dust. China already produces 25 percent of world mercury emissions and 12 percent of CO2.

And the pollution problem is on track to get worse.

Beijing plans to build 50 to 100 new coal-burning power plants a year - that's one a week - until 2012. That expansion will outstrip all the possible gains envisioned under the Kyoto environmental treaty.

Comparable statistics could be cited for the UK and our notorious pea-soup smogs until not so many years ago - from the Industrial Revolution until the Clean Air Acts of the 60's, in fact. China is merely catching up with the rest of the developed nations. Since most of the pollutants only affect China locally, it's a bit pointless tut-tutting about it on the other side of the world. Nobody particularly wants to live in a poisonous smog, even in China. She can, and doubtless will, get round to retro-fitting flue scrubbers on her power stations if they're not already fitting them. This will solve most of the pollution problems except, of course, CO2 and insignificant amounts of laughing gas.

CO2 is the big problem. The Chinese third of the human race only produce an eighth of the CO2. How can we possibly ask the Chinese to stop if we continue to pollute more than them? Obviously the best solution is to get our act together, go fully nuclear ourselves and simply give away the technology to other nations while applying carbon sanctions to bad polluters. Stick and carrot economics. Would it work? Oh yes. Will it happen? Of course not.

 

[whitelackington]

Now Worlds greatest polluter, two years ahead of prediction 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06252007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/china__worlds_polluter_ama_opedcolumnists_peter_brookes.htm

Overall, China has 16 of the world's 20 most air-polluted cities. In some, the air carries twice the pollutants considered safe by the U.N.'s World Health Organization, causing as many as 400,000 premature deaths a year due to respiratory disease.

The World Bank has called north-central China's coal town Linfen the world's most polluted city. Coal dust hangs so heavy in the air there that cars need to use their headlights during the day.

In Beijing, the unofficial air quality index is known as the "building index." That is, how many buildings you can see down the street before the landscape turns to a pea soup-like gray fog.

Coal is the main source of those pollution "exports''; China is the world's largest producer and consumer, relying on the fuel for 70 percent of its energy/industrial needs. And coal-fired plants emit carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide, mercury and dust. China already produces 25 percent of world mercury emissions and 12 percent of CO2.

And the pollution problem is on track to get worse.

Beijing plans to build 50 to 100 new coal-burning power plants a year - that's one a week - until 2012. That expansion will outstrip all the possible gains envisioned under the Kyoto environmental treaty.

Comparable statistics could be cited for the UK and our notorious pea-soup smogs until not so many years ago - from the Industrial Revolution until the Clean Air Acts of the 60's, in fact. China is merely catching up with the rest of the developed nations. Since most of the pollutants only affect China locally, it's a bit pointless tut-tutting about it on the other side of the world. Nobody particularly wants to live in a poisonous smog, even in China. She can, and doubtless will, get round to retro-fitting flue scrubbers on her power stations if they're not already fitting them. This will solve most of the pollution problems except, of course, CO2 and insignificant amounts of laughing gas.

CO2 is the big problem. The Chinese third of the human race only produce an eighth of the CO2. How can we possibly ask the Chinese to stop if we continue to pollute more than them? Obviously the best solution is to get our act together, go fully nuclear ourselves and simply give away the technology to other nations while applying carbon sanctions to bad polluters. Stick and carrot economics. Would it work? Oh yes. Will it happen? Of course not.

I thought only one in six of the world population lived in China.

 

[Downer]

I thought only one in six of the world population lived in China.

Once again the miracle of the Web, Google and Wikipedia can provide the correct figure. We were both wrong.  :-\ It doesn't make any difference to the argument: the per capita production of CO2 in China is still less than the world average. And that includes a lot of poor people who scarcely produce any, so your and my contribution to global warming is much greater than the average Chinaman's. :-\ I don't think we have much right to point the finger. Do you?  :-\

 

[cap n chris]

Hmm.  :-\

 

[whitelackington]

Correct. During the 19th Century Great Britain was the superpower; during the 20th Century it was the USA; during the 21st it will be (if it isn't already) either China or India. Our country's economy seems to be based on credit, spiralling (virtual) property "values" and people doing odd jobs for one another.

Well, people being lent large amounts of money to buy boxes to live in has just all but crashed a U.K. bank.
The USA economy is on the blink as is the frogs.

I do odd jobs for people,
the other week a geezer in Sunnindale rang me and asked if I did emergencies.
"What sort of emergency is it sir"
I enquired.
"Well" he said
"I've rammed my Winnebago tight between my wooden gate posts and am taking the children to the South of France today,
can you come out and chainsaw my gate posts down, right away."
So I did, is that odd job enough for you.

 

[cap n chris]

You inhabit a strange universe, WL. Power to your elbow.

 

[AndyF]

:-\ I don't think we have much right to point the finger. Do you?  :-\

Of course it does, we are white westerners, and they are just johnny foreigners. This gives us the God-given right to lecture the world on how they should run their affairs, and tell them they continue in poverty while we drive around in our 4x4's.

Tch! You need to read the Telegraph more often.... 

 

[whitelackington]

China will no longer export toxic toys.
GOOD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7088349.stm

 

[kay]

That seems a fairly standard story of a batch of something (in this case toys, in anther case it could be food) which is found to be defective, the government has reacted by stopping the items being sold, and has ordered an investigation. Happens all the time, Europe, America, wherever. Unless I've missed something?

 

[New Phil]

They sound like the perfect toy to me....

The children play with it and then suddenly become tired and suspetable to sugestion... '' It's bed time now Kate '', '' Put away your toys and off you go ''

Perfect

 

[whitelackington]

Now Worlds greatest polluter, two years ahead of prediction 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06252007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/china__worlds_polluter_ama_opedcolumnists_peter_brookes.htm

Overall, China has 16 of the world's 20 most air-polluted cities. In some, the air carries twice the pollutants considered safe by the U.N.'s World Health Organization, causing as many as 400,000 premature deaths a year due to respiratory disease.

The World Bank has called north-central China's coal town Linfen the world's most polluted city. Coal dust hangs so heavy in the air there that cars need to use their headlights during the day.

In Beijing, the unofficial air quality index is known as the "building index." That is, how many buildings you can see down the street before the landscape turns to a pea soup-like gray fog.

Coal is the main source of those pollution "exports''; China is the world's largest producer and consumer, relying on the fuel for 70 percent of its energy/industrial needs. And coal-fired plants emit carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide, mercury and dust. China already produces 25 percent of world mercury emissions and 12 percent of CO2.

And the pollution problem is on track to get worse.

Beijing plans to build 50 to 100 new coal-burning power plants a year - that's one a week - until 2012. That expansion will outstrip all the possible gains envisioned under the Kyoto environmental treaty.

Comparable statistics could be cited for the UK and our notorious pea-soup smogs until not so many years ago - from the Industrial Revolution until the Clean Air Acts of the 60's, in fact. China is merely catching up with the rest of the developed nations. Since most of the pollutants only affect China locally, it's a bit pointless tut-tutting about it on the other side of the world. Nobody particularly wants to live in a poisonous smog, even in China. She can, and doubtless will, get round to retro-fitting flue scrubbers on her power stations if they're not already fitting them. This will solve most of the pollution problems except, of course, CO2 and insignificant amounts of laughing gas.

CO2 is the big problem. The Chinese third of the human race only produce an eighth of the CO2. How can we possibly ask the Chinese to stop if we continue to pollute more than them? Obviously the best solution is to get our act together, go fully nuclear ourselves and simply give away the technology to other nations while applying carbon sanctions to bad polluters. Stick and carrot economics. Would it work? Oh yes. Will it happen? Of course not.

Apparently  it is one in five

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/china_modern/html/2.stm