Author Topic: Pasture Gill Pot  (Read 5468 times)

Offline numb7rs

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Pasture Gill Pot
« on: December 04, 2014, 12:21:59 pm »
I was part of an aborted trip to Pasture Gill this weekend (29th November). We opted not to descend after failing to find enough suitable anchors. The description from NFTFH mentions rigging the entrance from a chock stone and a spit.

The chock stone was obvious enough, but the only spits we could find were less than encouraging. To get to them we had to scrape off a layer of moss and silt, and they were rusted to buggery and somehow recessed ~1 cm into the rock.  :-\ I wouldn't trust them to hold up my trousers, let alone a bunch of cavers. They were on the face of the rock on the NNE (uphill) side of the entrance.

Has anyone been recently? The latest evidence of a trip that I can find is YCC in April 2011. Does anyone know if these are the supposedly correct anchors, or if we missed the correct ones?

Offline Alex

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2014, 01:17:13 pm »
BRCC were down this year, they also mentioned the anchor but did get down to the bottom of the 4th. (I was not on the trip) If I had a drill (or someone with a drill came with me) we would re-bolt it as part of a trip. I should really get my own drill really as Birks Fell Shale pitch also needs sorting out.

Perhaps as an alternative a CNCC resin trip can be made, though not having P-anchors acts as a sort of conservation for the lower stuff (that and the tight rift and wet crawl in there). Still the bolts need sorting.
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Offline molerat

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2014, 01:21:57 pm »
Alex, I know a certified anchor installer who has plans to bolt Shale Pitch in Birks Fell.

Offline Selkirk

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2014, 01:47:15 pm »
A friend and I tried to get down there earlier this year but retreated before the bottom of the second pitch. The spits are horrenous!

Offline Alex

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2014, 07:46:41 pm »
Ahh thanks for the info Molerat, look forward to being able to go down it again.  It was horrendous (going directly down a strong waterfall) before the spits where unusable.
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Offline Anonymous x

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2014, 08:45:05 pm »
Sorry, nothing to do with Pasture Gill, but I recall the ladder hanging in the water at Shale Pitch. It's character building, some people need to man up!

Offline psychocrawler

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2014, 12:19:46 am »
Get some ladders and go for a more traditional approach. Less need to fart about worrying about old bolts and better exercise in a short but splendid cave. 'Big' pitch especially nice on the wire staircase.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 10:38:36 am »
Never had any problems there myself but it has been a few years for me and i do remember us utilising many a natural due to a few poor spits.
I must add that like climbing in the uk where not all crags are bolted all to hell, neither are all of the caves.
I think it just has to be accepted that in some areas - wharfedale especially - the insitu anchors or lack of are just something that must be dealt with.
Maybe it is me that is ignorant, due to having come from a climbing background, where seeking out natural anchors is second nature. But i can imagine that those who have a only a caving background and are used to bolts on top of bolts, would struggle with such limited resources or lack the learned skills necessary in seeking out naturals and utilising them.
Ignorance among cavers where the lack of bolts is concerned just seem quite common.
I hope that if such a re-bolting trip does occur at pasture gill that only what was there before will be replaced, because if not the extraneous will no doubt be removed.

In response to an earlier comment; i think it is also of great importance that the re-bolting be undertaken by someone with the correct skills and judgement necessary and not just someone wielding a drill with a bit of practice or a few bolts to their name.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 11:07:48 am by Simon Beck »

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 12:15:24 pm »
The above post of mine is more of an observation and acceptance of the fact than it is a criticism. And it is not that i am being presumptuous towards those who may go and re-bolt it either, i just feel if it needs doing it should be done correctly.

Offline numb7rs

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 07:29:01 pm »
Thanks for the comments, all. From this it would seem that those were the 'correct' ones.

Simon - I understand what you mean. When visiting a cave in the UK, where one has gotten used to seeing well placed bolts in the majority of caves, it is all too easy to be focussed on looking for the shiny loop of stainless steel, instead of a convenient natural. I'm not sure if 'ignorance' is the right word, but there is certainly a different way of looking at caves (particularly when rigging) if you're using pre-placed anchors and just 'enjoying the ride', compared with a more 'exploratory' view that someone with significant experience might have.

Offline Alex

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 10:07:08 pm »
To be fair, on expeditions I use naturals when dropping unknown pitches where-ever possible as its just far easier and quicker way of ticking off the pitch, and it is still safe when you use 3 different (or more) things and quite fun being that inventive, so I know where you are coming from Simon.

I don't recall naturals being in plentiful supply on the Pasture-gill pitch unless you count the fence posts! Probably right that pitch at least is better done on a ladder (2nd is free climbable, but quite loose) but I would definitely prefer ropes for the lower pitches and I am far too poor to afford ladders, my main club don't own many (if any) so ropes my only choice.

Even doing a 20m pitch in Mendip today was a bit nerve wracking on a ladder without a life line (they don't believe in them in Mendip!).

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Offline Alex

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2015, 06:46:45 pm »
Up to date rigging report.
Entrance pitch:  Best bet is to rig off the corner where the style is, put a sling around the post in the other corner (opposite corner) and make one large y-hang, the bigger sling the better. If you get the knot in the right place you don't need a re-belay and can just drop right to the bottom of the first pitch.

2nd pitch The anchor is still in a okay state, there is also an new through bolt anchor here but its not in a good position, so no use for normal rigging. If you don't trust the single re-belay bolt ,t here is also a chock stone just above it so you can do a y-hang here if you don't trust it, however I would advise checking the rock first! Or simply just climb down this pitch, its not a very difficult climb.

3rd pitch, there is a calcite natural thread just above the 3m deep pot (on the other side as described in the book), useful to get off the pitch if nothing else, use this as the initial anchor. The anchor just over the lip is okay. The next anchor at the start of the left window route is useless, did not try the right-hand side (wet). However there is a thread on the right-hand side of the left window where its possible to get a sling through. Provided you then put in the Y-hang far out to the left, you won't get any rope rub. The 3rd pitch deviation tat is currently in-situ.

The 4th pitch, lower traverse route is in good nick, however there is an issue with the higher route starting from the old eye-bolt, the right-hand side bolt at the Y-hang is useless, thankfully again there is a natural to use instead, just above it to the right to rig the y-hang with so you can still get down this way.

5th pitch, anchor looks okay, free climbed it, so not tested it.

6th pitch, bypassed so no idea.

7th pitch, I don't know the state of this, its rather sketchy though.

Hope this is useful for someone.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline MarkS

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 01:53:25 pm »
A small group of us had a very enjoyable trip down Pasture Gill yesterday. All rigging was as described in Not For the Faint Hearted, with the exception of the entrance where we didn't see any spits. We rigged off a fence post (but could have used the tree) followed by a very solid chock-stone (presumably the one mentioned in the guide) which gave a clear hang down the 1st pitch. We didn't go down the final pitch, but the naturals described in the guide seemed fairly obvious. None of the rigging was particularly sketchy.

Overall I think the cave exceeded all our expectations. It's nice and varied, and the roots a the bottom are pretty remarkable. The water was chilly though!

The cave is on the radar for getting resin anchors installed. It was a real shame to see the plethora of strangely placed throughbolts down there.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2017, 02:35:23 pm »
Good effort! especially where the challenge of uncertainty is concerned.

Offline droid

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2017, 04:33:52 pm »
Good analogy with climbing re bolts, Simon.
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2017, 05:28:58 pm »
Good analogy with climbing re bolts, Simon.

Old comments/opinions have a tendency to sting!

Looking back; I could've got my point across with far less, or without rambling on....

Still stand by it. Glad it's going to get done properly!

Offline Alex

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2017, 10:38:37 pm »
Deleted post, I was thinking of the wrong cave.
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Offline nobrotson

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2020, 08:24:13 pm »
The cave is on the radar for getting resin anchors installed. It was a real shame to see the plethora of strangely placed throughbolts down there.

Did this ever happen? Thinking of heading there tomorrow (water level depending) and was wondering if I'll be needing hangers etc.
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline MarkS

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2020, 09:16:17 pm »



Did this ever happen? Thinking of heading there tomorrow (water level depending) and was wondering if I'll be needing hangers etc.

I think it's all done bar the final pitch.


Offline nobrotson

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2020, 09:48:37 pm »
Mega, OK. Will carry hangers etc in case but if it's done then that will speed the trip up massively. Cheers
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline nobrotson

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2020, 09:04:21 pm »
Went today, absolutely excellent cave, one of the best I've done for some time. Has real character and great variety. If this wasn't in Wharfedale it would be a yorkshire classic!
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline psychocrawler

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2020, 08:32:42 pm »
Shh! It is a Yorkshire classic but don’t tell everyone on here.

Offline nobrotson

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2020, 09:29:26 am »
Regarding the rigging: resin anchors are in place on the opening 4 pitches and none after. Agree that there seem to be a lot of needless thru-bolts in there. If the resin anchor installers working on the cave would like someone to help carry the kit etc I will gladly offer my services.

Also agree that this cave is extremely well-suited to ladders.
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2020, 10:44:28 am »
I  regretted not going down the last pitch, instead I chose to admire the root formations in the passage above it.   I’ve always hoped that it is a miserable pitch down to a grotty sump.

Offline Alex

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2020, 11:36:11 am »
Its actually quite a nice chamber, with a big pool in it.
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Offline Duck ditch

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Re: Pasture Gill Pot
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2020, 02:18:01 pm »
Oh no. Thanks for nothing Alex.  :weep: :)

 

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