Author Topic: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m  (Read 1202 times)

Offline scurve

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Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« on: November 24, 2019, 06:24:26 pm »
I went down the highly impressive Jockey Hole yesterday and it made me ponder the question of how many pitches in Yorkshire surpass the completely arbitrary depth of 50m.

These are the Yorkshire caves that I can think of, which (I think) contain pitches of 50m or more:

Jockey Hole
Nick Pot
Gaping Gill, Main Shaft
Jib Tunnel/Dihedral
Rat Hole
Hurnel Moss
Long Kin West
Long Kin East
Growling
Black Shiver
Gingling
Death’s Head Hole
Juniper Gulf
Boxhead
Brown Hill Pot
Alum Pot
Big Meanie

Admittedly, some of these - such as Puits Iain Plant in Brown Hill Pot - are very broken and hardly really count. Can anyone think of any others?

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2019, 06:51:05 pm »
You could look at the rope lengths required from ACD's compilation.
Do you mean in a single hang?

Offline Fulk

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 07:33:31 pm »
Is Jingling Hole 50 m?

Offline scurve

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 07:54:28 pm »
You could look at the rope lengths required from ACD's compilation.
Do you mean in a single hang?

Thanks, Ian.
I mean the actual distance from the top of the pitch to the bottom, regardless of rebelays and deviations.

Offline scurve

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2019, 07:54:57 pm »
Is Jingling Hole 50 m?

Yes, I think it probably is. Thanks, Fulk.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2019, 09:06:13 pm »
Is Jingling Hole 50 m?

According to Northern Caves, it requires 45 metres of ladder.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 09:22:53 am »
According to Northern Caves (1975) the Eyehole entrance to Rowten Pot provides a direct  67 metre pitch.

Offline JoshW

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2019, 10:11:00 am »
Looking through the CNCC rigging guides how about
Hunt pot
Diccan (if you’re willing to get very wet and rig straight down)
Cow pot

This is looking at where near enough straight pitches need 60+m of rope. Some might be a smidge under.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2019, 10:28:51 am »
Looking through the CNCC rigging guides how about
Hunt pot
Diccan (if you’re willing to get very wet and rig straight down)
Cow pot

According to NC, Hunt requires 45 m of ladder, Diccan (P3) 38 m, and Cow Pot 46 m.

Online Beardy

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2019, 10:37:46 am »
Strans Gill Pot - Charity Pitch  ?

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2019, 10:59:21 am »
Strans Gill Pot - Charity Pitch  ?

49 metres, according to the NC test!

Offline TheBitterEnd

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2019, 11:10:05 am »
I mean the actual distance from the top of the pitch to the bottom, regardless of rebelays and deviations.

In that case I'm not sure the NC test really applies - https://cncc.org.uk/cave/hunt-pot

I also seem to remember rigging Shrapnel on one rope from top to bottom although it wasn't necessary to do it that way.
'Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.' — Mark Twain

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2019, 11:18:35 am »
I mean the actual distance from the top of the pitch to the bottom, regardless of rebelays and deviations.

In that case I'm not sure the NC test really applies - https://cncc.org.uk/cave/hunt-pot

I also seem to remember rigging Shrapnel on one rope from top to bottom although it wasn't necessary to do it that way.

For Hunt Pot, I added the two ladder lengths (27 m and 18 m) required for the entrance pitch.

Taking the ladder length tends to give an overestimate, as one often has a metre of ladder coming over the edge.

Shrapnel Pot, though, is a good call.

Offline mikem

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 11:31:31 am »
NC ladder test is however a better guide than the rope lengths, as you lose a surprising amount at each knot & traverse.

Shrapnel Pot, Broken Pitch given as 46m.

Surely Diccan top pitch(es) would add up to 46m as well...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 11:48:31 am by mikem »

Online Beardy

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 12:05:01 pm »
Rift Pot (allotment)?
Rift Pot (marble steps - Route 66)?
Vulcan Pot ?
Voldermort Hole (Oliver Lloyd Aven)?
Spectacle Pot (Dodds)?
Broken Finger Pot ?

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2019, 12:07:43 pm »
Shrapnel Pot, Broken Pitch given as 46m.

The remaining drops could be considered to be part of the same pitch, though, as I assume TheBitterEnd to be doing.

Offline mikem

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2019, 12:54:42 pm »
NC ladders - top of the (named) pots:

Gaping Gill, Main Shaft 110m
Jib Tunnel/Dihedral 104m
Nick Pot/Vulcan 101m
Rat Hole 98m
Long Kin West 91 (& 55m)
Black Shiver 82m
Growling 78m
Nick Pot big pitch 76m
Alum Pot 73m
Boxhead c.70m
Long Kin East 70m
Jockey Hole main 67m (or side tunnel 61m)
Rowten Pot 67m
Death’s Head Hole 64m
Juniper Gulf 24 + 61m (alt 27 + 53 depending where you want to measure it from)
Gingling 6 + 61m
Hurnel Moss 61m
*Rift (Allotment) main 61m
Brown Hill Pot 51m
*Spectacle Pot 50m
Shrapnel Pot 46 + 14m (with a 3.6m climb between, which pretty much makes it up to 50m)

Big Meanie "only" 49m

+ used where additional pitch could be included, or identified as separate
* Beardy's latest additions (although Marble Steps Rift, Voldemort & Broken Finger pitches not in NC or CNCC)
c. approx from rigging guide as Boxhead not in NC
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 01:11:29 pm by mikem »

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2019, 05:28:43 pm »
Gaping Gill, Main Shaft 110m

There's no 'clean' hang that far though: the long pitch on the main shaft route is only about 90m (because you can do it on a 90m rope). If you go straight down from the surface you will hit the ledge first; the SRT down the main shaft route traverses a few metres into the main rift before dropping down and only just missing the ledge (by a metre or two). There is no clean hang, I think, from the surface to the floor. Plus I think 110m is an overestimate anyway OR possibly a measurement from the lowest point of the entrance doline rim; I think the shaft is supposed to be 98m. I've not done Dihedral but on that basis I'd assume that is also less than 104m.

From previous reading, I think Nick Pot is supposed to be the biggest.

Offline JJM

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2019, 05:37:31 pm »
Aquamole
It's unbelievable what people are willing to do in the name of conformity

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2019, 05:47:31 pm »
How big is the pitch in Sell Gill Wet Entrance if you just went down the waterfall?

Offline Fulk

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2019, 06:17:39 pm »
Quote
Plus I think 110m is an overestimate anyway OR possibly a measurement from the lowest point of the entrance doline rim; I think the shaft is supposed to be 98m. I've not done Dihedral but on that basis I'd assume that is also less than 104m.

I once did the 'Jib Tunnel / Dihedral Route' but instead of using the rebelays and deviations, I rigged from the bolts in the roof of Jib Tunnel to get a free hang to the floor of the Main Chamber. It was a warm, sunny day in a spell of dry weather, but even so it was pretty wet for much of the way . . . not something to do right now! Unfortunately I can't remember how far it was.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2019, 07:22:06 pm »
I was involved in measuring the depth of Lateral Shaft direct, from the Jib Tunnel jumping off point; it was exactly 98.1 m.

It's written up in an edition of the CPC Record - and I think a note about it also appeared in Descent.

Offline mikem

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2019, 08:11:14 pm »
There's no 'clean' hang that far though:
The original question wasn't about free hangs, but about shaft depths & the list is the Northern Caves recommended ladders, so not quite the same things. As langcliffe has already noted ladders will generally start a metre or two above the ledge you are starting from, to facilitate getting on & off, but are still a better estimate than rope lengths.

The old rigging guides used to include the pitch heights (as well as rope) - which made it much easier to work out what would reach if you didn't have the recommended lengths - but this would create some overlap on some routes e.g. Main Shaft shown as 95m, whilst Jib/Dihedral 105m. I don't know where they used to hang the ladders from, but 110m was the length given to reach their belay point, so was probably somewhere on the slope opposite Fall Beck.

Stream Passage at 26 + 32m (58)
& Vespers 7 + 12 + 27 + 36m (82) are also options.
Lancaster given as 49m.

Another Aquamole sketch suggests 49m for pitch depth, not sure which is most accurate.

Sell Gill could well also be close...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 08:25:07 pm by mikem »

Offline FionaH

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2019, 09:04:04 pm »
Are Electron and Megatron pitches in Trapdoor Pot the same shaft?

Offline Alex

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2019, 09:21:33 pm »
Looking at NFTFH the last pitch in Broken finger does not exceed or come to 50m,

Aqua mole may have a 60m pitch but as its a series of short drops where it would not be possible to fall from the top and hit the floor (I am not trying that!) I don't think that should count.

As for other caves, I can't think of any, unless we count avens.

Electron and Megatron are effectively in the same shaft but separated by a large ledge.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2019, 08:37:25 am »
Aqua mole may have a 60m pitch but as its a series of short drops where it would not be possible to fall from the top and hit the floor (I am not trying that!) I don't think that should count.

The drop test is an interesting idea, but I suspect that you would have to totally re-evaluate the list. Thus, for example, the ledges on Poseiden and Rat Hole may well arrest a falling caver.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2019, 08:59:29 am »
Someone may have picked up on this already (I've not read all replies in detail; bit busy) but not all the examples you mention in the original post are in Yorkshire. If you're trying to get a proper list together, it might be worth clarifying whether you mean "just Yorkshire" or in the "Yorkshire Dales" (which is comprised of Lancashire, Cumbria and Yorkshire).

I'm not vying for any "pedant of the year award" here - just perhaps saving respondents' time.

Offline TheBitterEnd

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Re: Pitches in Yorkshire that exceed 50m
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2019, 06:29:54 pm »
Westmorland please!    ;D
'Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.' — Mark Twain